• SONAR
  • Plosives - ARA Region FX EQ in Sonar X3? (Solved) (p.2)
2014/08/18 16:39:17
bitSync
Moderator - I hope this still post belongs in this forum; if not, please just delete or move it.
 
I wanted to report on my solution to the prominent plosives.  I discovered iZotope RX3 Spectral Repair.  Yikes!  What an awesome utility.  Not only did I get rid of the plosives but the CPU fan noise from an open mike and the barking dogs (4 of them) from the floor above.  I'm sure the techniques recommended in here are very useful but this RX3 really kicked butt for me.  Just wanted to share.
2014/08/18 17:06:57
Anderton
RX3 is indeed a rocking piece of software if you need all it has to offer. It's definitely appropriate for a Sonar forum because every now and then we have to deal with projects that have hum, noise, etc. and benefits from spectral editing.
 
However...having just dealt with some plosives last night on a vocal, I still think the fade-in is the fastest way to get it right because you can tailor exactly how much you want to take out and how much you want to leave in. Also, any "repairs" leave no artifacts.
2014/08/18 18:46:54
bitSync
Anderton
RX3 is indeed a rocking piece of software if you need all it has to offer. It's definitely appropriate for a Sonar forum because every now and then we have to deal with projects that have hum, noise, etc. and benefits from spectral editing.
 
However...having just dealt with some plosives last night on a vocal, I still think the fade-in is the fastest way to get it right because you can tailor exactly how much you want to take out and how much you want to leave in. Also, any "repairs" leave no artifacts.


Hi Craig,
 
Thanks for your continued interest in this topic.  I'm really happy your technique works so well for you.  It's remarkable how many ways there are to skin a cat. 
 
I'm not sure what you are meaning by "leave no artifacts".  Have you tried RX3 Spectral Repair on plosives?
 
I have to say that the RX3 solution took basically the idea I was looking for, a Region FX EQ (static frequency and band slope), and took it to a whole new level.  Instead of a Region FX simply applying a static frequency/slope band EQ to a specific time span, the RX3 Spectral Repair applies precise attenuation only to the egregious spectral region (VLF) which is actually variable in frequency over the plosive time span (i.e., the filter band edge frequencies are adjustable over time), only for the specific span of time present (visible in the spectrogram) and only to the degree of attenuation sought for the temporal span.  The technique is like speed surgery, a plosivectomy.  Once you get the hang of it, the spectral repair for a plosive can be achieved in seconds with ridiculous accuracy and with seemingly no undesirable artifacts, only the artifacts you want (no more plosive and no adverse impact to any of the other spectral energy).  Not dissing your technique at all, if it works for you that's awesome.  But this RX3 Spectral Repair is super cool and super high fidelity and I didn't want readers to think it introduced undesirable artifacts.  It's another excellent tool for the toolbox.  Best regards. 
2014/08/18 19:53:18
Anderton
bitSync
Thanks for your continued interest in this topic.  I'm really happy your technique works so well for you.  It's remarkable how many ways there are to skin a cat. 
 
I'm not sure what you are meaning by "leave no artifacts". 



Of the many ways to skin a cat, some leave audible artifacts and others don't. For example with multiband compression, in some cases you can hear the compression "breathing." Applying a fade affects no aspect of the audio other than level. So unless you knew that previously the level had been louder, there's no way you would know that the fade had altered the signal in any way. 
 
I've done a lot of restoration work over the years, the worst being a cassette tape whose battery was dying and therefore it was also changing speed as well as being a cassette! Generally the more you have to correct something, the greater the risk of hearing that corrections are taking place. 
2014/08/18 22:08:44
bitSync
Anderton
bitSync
Thanks for your continued interest in this topic.  I'm really happy your technique works so well for you.  It's remarkable how many ways there are to skin a cat. 
 
I'm not sure what you are meaning by "leave no artifacts". 



Of the many ways to skin a cat, some leave audible artifacts and others don't. For example with multiband compression, in some cases you can hear the compression "breathing." Applying a fade affects no aspect of the audio other than level. So unless you knew that previously the level had been louder, there's no way you would know that the fade had altered the signal in any way. 
 
I've done a lot of restoration work over the years, the worst being a cassette tape whose battery was dying and therefore it was also changing speed as well as being a cassette! Generally the more you have to correct something, the greater the risk of hearing that corrections are taking place. 


Hi Craig,
 
No doubt your cassette restoration job was very challenging and that the extreme processing measures applied to the audio to rescue that mess may have ultimately caused both improvements as well as undesirable artifacts from the extreme processing.  Makes total sense.
 
I'm feeling a bit like I'm having to defend RX3's awesome performance from allegations of potential undesirable artifacts.  Yes?  I would like to be clear that the plosive processing I described above through RX3's Spectral Repair was absolutely exceptional and caused no audible artifacts whatever (besides the intended disappearance of the plosive low frequency energy) - simply impressive, glorious, easy, artifact-free, plosive processing.  Just sayin'.  Peace.
 
P.S. - If you're interested in the techniques that was used there's a video illustrating the process on YouTube at about 3:15.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9e9-ENJtxM
2014/08/18 22:46:47
Sanderxpander
RX3 needs no defense, it is teh awesome. RX4 was preannounced over email at least. Should arrive in September. Just wishful thinking here but I really hope they implement ARA for the spectral repair thingy!
2014/08/18 22:53:46
bitSync
Sanderxpander
RX3 needs no defense, it is teh awesome. RX4 was preannounced over email at least. Should arrive in September. Just wishful thinking here but I really hope they implement ARA for the spectral repair thingy!


Agreed.  Same hopes here about the ARA.
2014/08/19 00:45:52
Anderton
bitSync
I'm feeling a bit like I'm having to defend RX3's awesome performance from allegations of potential undesirable artifacts.  Yes?



Not at all! RX3 is incredible, I have it. Actually I have several iZotope programs, their products are all made to very high standards. It's also a company populated by cool people, some of whom are friends. And it's an ethical company - when they made Trash, as far as they knew I invented multiband distortion (I'm pretty sure that's right) and they asked for permission to copy my idea, even though I had placed it in the public domain and they were legally and morally entitled to use it any way they liked (FYI Steinberg did the same thing with the Quadrafuzz). I guess the only negative thing I can say about iZotope is their name is hell on spell checkers 
 
But as I said at the beginning, "RX3 is indeed a rocking piece of software if you need all it has to offer. It's definitely appropriate for a Sonar forum because every now and then we have to deal with projects that have hum, noise, etc. and benefit from spectral editing."
 
But the key words are if you need all it has to offer, which is considerable and involves extra expense as well as learning a new program. If all that's needed is to tame plosives, I suggested a free method that's already in Sonar and my pointing out it doesn't cause artifacts is simply that - it doesn't cause artifacts. That doesn't mean RX3 does. However some other methods like multiband compression, using "noise reduction" algorithms that take a fingerprint of a specific sound, or a transient shaper could add artifacts, so I wanted to be clear that adding a fade doesn't. I generally believe in doing the least invasive process possible with audio.  
2014/08/19 00:47:55
bitSync
Cool.  Thanks, Craig.
2014/08/22 09:13:30
Sanderxpander
Well, RX4 was announced (if not officially launched) and the specs page says "RX Connect", not ARA. I mailed them and it seems the support staff at least is not aware of ARA so there are probably no short term plans. They would "pass it on" to development. I is sad.
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