• SONAR
  • Frustrating sync problem (converting midi to audio)
2014/08/12 00:10:56
tyroneshuz1
Hi gang--tech support can't seem to help me, at least not yet. I am capable of really basic blunders such as not having NOW marker at 0, importing a MIDI sequence and complaining it doesn't play in time! (that's not the case here, read on please)
 
Laptop = i5, 8gRAM Win 8.1, SONAR X3, focusrite 2i2, only MS GW Wavetable thingie
 
When I import a MIDI sequence, it plays fine, in time, I record my audio tracks along with it on other tracks, now I wish to make the whole thing an audio thing--mp3, wav, etc.
 
So I insert a soft synth, and for example, on the MIDI bass track, I choose the SI bass guitar, and it plays back late, very late.
I then try the Cakewalk TTS-1 and that plays back EARLY!! In the piano roll view, the first bass note is bar 2 beat 1 exactly, there's a pick-up drum lick in the first bar, so it's obvious if it's in time or not.
 
This same thing happens when I open the Cakewalk tutorial sample "Latin" (I tried with the piano, and the TTS-1 plays back early I think)
 
A month back or so, I made my own MIDI tracks in the Piano Roll, did it for bass and drums, then inserted soft-synths when I went to prepare for mixdown. I used the SI bass guitar for the bass, and the TTS-1 for the drums. Worked like a charm. 
 
I haven't gone back to that project and to check if it still plays right, because I've already mixed it. I will do that, but in the meantime, does anyone have any clue as to what setting needs to be tweaked?
 
I'm already at lowest latency on ASIO and don't experience dropouts, hitches, etc.
 
Stumped...
 
 
 
2014/08/12 03:13:03
Sanderxpander
What are you using for sound before inserting soft synths exactly?
2014/08/12 03:17:36
TomHelvey
I had a similar problem recently, changing my audio driver to ASIO fixed it for me. You might want to check your audio driver settings and make sure you're using ASIO.
2014/08/12 05:05:51
Kalle Rantaaho
What if you compose the whole part using, say, TTS-1 instead of Wavetable synth?
Wavetable is a crappy thing and IMO it's better to stay away from it. Its routing is totally different from VSTs, and that may perhaps affect automatic latency compensation or something when you add the VST afterwards (??).
Also, I think (?) you can't use Wavetable if you use ASIO driver, which is the most recommendable one as Tom points out.
 
2014/08/12 10:31:42
tyroneshuz1
I am using ASIO and it runs fine on the lowest latency. I am not using a MIDI controller, I just use the computer's MS Wavetable thingie. I've tried unsuccessfully to do it with a hex pickup and gtr synth (had a roland GR unit, and I couldn't get it to track very well, I now have a Godin classical w/13-pin deal, and there's a new BOSS pedal that will do synth and MIDI-thru but that's for much later).
 
So my MIDI is just the computer on-board Wavetable synth, and my audio interface is the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and that allows me to use ASIO drivers.
2014/08/12 10:36:17
Anderton
If this was a Sonar problem, the boards would be lit up with angry posters. When you say ASIO, do you mean ASIO4ALL or the actual Focusrite drivers?
2014/08/12 12:18:56
tyroneshuz1
I am using the Focusrite drivers. 
 
As I said, a month back, I made my own drum and bass tracks via the piano roll view, and then inserted a soft synth to convert them to audio, no fuss, no muss.
 
My problem seems to be when I import a MIDI sequence, one came from a website, but I also tried it with the "Latin" tune from the sample Sonar folder, and it did the same things.
 
Tech support said one option would be to run the outputs of the Focusrite back into the Focusrite and record the tracks manually. I'd be willing to do that as a last resort, but I bought this laptop in May, and upgraded to X3 shortly thereafter, this is way too new for workarounds.
2014/08/12 12:32:26
CJaysMusic
I am using ASIO and it runs fine on the lowest latency. I am not using a MIDI controller, I just use the computer's MS Wavetable thingie.

Impossible.. You cannot be in ASIO mode and use the MS Wavetable at the same time. you are most likely having problems because your using the onboard sound chip also. The latency must be from you using both sound cards (onboard and focusrite) or some sort of error in your soundcard configuration.
 
There is an error in your set up somewhere. You Need to make sure your using the focusrite in ASIO mode, because if you are using he MS Wavetable, you are not in ASIO mode.
 
CJ
2014/08/12 15:10:56
tyroneshuz1
We are talking past each other, and I'm sure it's my fault.
 
I don't have a MIDI controller of any kind. On my previous tune, I manually entered drum and bass lines on the piano roll view, I think I started with just a drum beat for more measures than I needed, then I played the guitar parts to that, vocals, then I made the bass line. I later inserted the SI bass guitar for the bass and the TTS for the drums, and I somehow made those midi tracks audio, probably using the bounce tracks feature. All audio was recorded through the Focusrite unit. I had no timing issues whatsoever. I played to the drums and bass before I made 'em audio tracks, and there were no issues.
 
Now on this tune, I can listen to my imported tracks, and I played guitar over them, but when I try to run 'em through synths the timing goes wacky. 
 
I just put the drums, bass, and piano through synths, and I switched the metronome over to audio and now THEY play in time, but the guitar track is out, which means I'll have to move it. I may have to change the outputs of the MIDI tracks back so I can see how the guitar track lines up (how tedious), or I can try different placements (how tedious!). 
 
I guess if I'm building the tracks I can do as I've been doing, but if I'm importing a sequence, I'll have to run everything through synths first, and use an Audio metronome (which I've never ever done before, btw) and THEN record guitar, vocals, any non-MIDI instruments. 
 
I'm much more a player than DAW engineer (used to engineer on boards and tape machines many moons ago) but I am using recording with my guitar students so they do a take, and next week's will be better after studying applicable concepts. It's no problem if I find an audio backing track to import, but sometimes all you can find are MIDI sequences, which should work equally well in spite of the sonic idiosyncrasies of MIDI instruments.
 
I don't know what I may have messed with, perhaps accidentally, to cause what's happening, or maybe it's just different when rolling your own vs. importing a sequence. Anyone?
 
 
 
2014/08/12 18:12:09
Sanderxpander
Again, there is no way for you to use the MS Wave thingy if you have properly setup your ASIO driver. In the Sonar preferences, is it set to ASIO mode? Have you selected the Focusrite ASIO driver? Can you post screenshots of those screens?

If you have ASIO4ALL installed you may want to completely remove it from your system as it can interfere with proper ASIO drivers.
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