Does anybody spend any time comparing their mixes with commercial mixes...most notably though...looking and listening to how they sound mid/side?  I did a little a/b'ing last night and couldn't believe how much low end was absent from THE SIDES of my mixes as compared to commercial releases, further illustrated by spectral analysis of both (wish I knew how to post pictures).  Commercial mixes still had considerable oomph all the way down to 50Hz and stuff.  I was shocked.  I mix primarily LCR.
 
I was always under the impression to "funnel the lower stuff to the center" to help tighten mixes, vinyl pressings, mono mix compatibility, etc., but maybe I'm overdoing it with HPF on channels, too steep of a curve, and other goofs?
 
Anyone have any thoughts?  Reason I mentioned Craig is because I remember an Ozone article he wrote a while back that talked about using the slider to change the width of the low end frequencies (essentially removing it from sides). My ears and eyes showed my differently last night.  Just one of about 3 zillion reasons my home tracks don't sound like Keith Urban records.  Yet...
 
Thanks in advance for any insight!  Learning to record and mix properly is a beautiful frustrating amazing journey!

While im definitely no expert, I would say that achievieng a pro sound has way more to do with other factors than just mixing and mastering alone. Great Mics/pre's/outboard gear springs to mind for starters. Again, although LCR mixes have been used quite often to good/great effect in commercial mixes, they are not amongst any recordings that have wowed me.
 
As a budding mixer, it would be interesting to know where you think your mixes are deficient specifically. I dont understand why low end spread across the stereo spectrum would be so beneficial so I guess it depends on what HZ range you are hearing/seeing, not just on your own mixes but the commercial ones. One thing i have learnt aside from all of the eq tips thrown around, is that unless the levels are correct between instruments, then eq matters not, for instance, its possible to have a deeper low end if its not too high in the mix to begin with. There is definitely a reason mono compatability is still an important factor regardless of the medium on which its released.
 
You are right, it IS a beautiful frustrating and amazing journey, but to emulate the greats with fairly average gear/recording/mixing environment seems a tad impossible to me. Im not assuming what gear you have, im just speaking from my own perspective
 
I will watch this thread with interest obviously, good question.
 
Bibs

Centering bass doesn't necessarily mean the low end of all instruments, it primarily means bass and kick. There are two reasons for why this became "standard."

• You can't cut decent levels on vinyl with different bass excursions in opposite channels.
• Bass is much less directional than high frequencies. So when played back on speakers, it didn't make a whole lot of difference if it was centered or off to the side anyway.
• Depending on the music, bass can take up a lot of the dynamic range. Centering it distributes that over both channels so you can have more headroom.

With digital not having the restrictions of vinyl, and more people listening over headphones, bass placement doesn't matter as much as it used to. But there's also the issue of the frequency threshold where you want to keep things centered. As it said in the article:
 
"While many people think of stereo imaging processors as a way to expand the stereo image, with Ozone’s implementation you can also use it to narrow a frequency band’s stereo image by pulling its slider negative. This is particularly useful with bass, which you usually want centered in a mix (and always want centered if you’re cutting to vinyl).
 
Drag the band splitter so the lowest band covers 20Hz to about 50-100Hz, depending on what you’re mastering. Then, pull down the band’s slider—I usually bring it down all the way to -100.0% so that the bass is really glued to center."
 
One reason why I do this is when i master something, I expect that master to serve whatever needs people have. What with doing a fair amount of dance music mastering, you never know when something might be released on vinyl (it happens ). Whoever has that master should not have to get it re-done just because they decided to release using another type of playback medium.
 
I typically start pulling it in under 65Hz or so, because that will grab the kick fundamental but leave things like the low end of guitar, floor toms, etc. untouched.
 
Ultimately, you need to decide what sounds best for your music. You don't use a highpass filter to cut out lows for the sake of exercising your highpass filter, but to solve a perceived problem. Trying to fix a problem you don't perceive will often backfire by creating a different problem.

You can also use the free TP Basslane plugin to center all frequencies below a defined threshold, if you don't have Ozone. I don't put it on the master bus, just the tracks that need it.

Although for some reason, my copy has at some point stopped showing up in X3. Really must get to the bottom of that sometime.

A couple things:
 
It's inaccurate to say that "Bass is much less directional than high frequencies.". It is accurate to say that humans perceive the direction of the source of low frequencies less easily than higher frequencies but in fact we do a very good job of perceiving the direction of a source of bass. It is also accurate to say that the reflections in many listening environments interfere in a way that can make perception of the source of bass frequencies seem ambiguous and perhaps impossible. It can useful to understand that these are two different subjects.
 
 
Re: "using the slider to change the width of the low end frequencies (essentially removing it from sides)."
It's not clear to me if you are using a mid/side tool to analyze your tracks or if you are just listening to the mixes carefully while concentrating on the mid/side but I think it will be helpful if you take a moment and consider that when someone is speaking of mid/side processing the terms can seem misleading. A more appropriate pair of terms might be "same/different". If for example you turn down the low frequencies in your "different" signals you are turning down the low frequencies. If you don't make up the bass levels by turning up the bass in the "same" signal than all you've done is turned down the over all bass level. Conversely, if you turn up the bass in your "Center" than you are essentially turning up the bass in the "Left" and the "Right" in the "same" amounts. In other words, if you have concluded that your mixes don't have enough bass in the sides you are realizing that your mixes don't have enough bass. One possibility is that while you have been turning down the bass in your "sides" that you haven't been using make up gain in your "mid". Any time you add anything to the center, it comes out of the sides in equal proportions... it's just the "same" and not "different". Bear in mind that the most compelling reason to have lots of bass in the "difference" signals is to emulate the swirling effects of a environment like, for example, a lush sounding hall with complex reverb while a compelling reason to have lots of bass in the "same" is to get maximum volume and perhaps punch or attack. I think the suggestion that you should use the EQ and mid/side treatment in response to what you hope to hear rather than as an adherence to some guideline is the best way to move forward. 
 
Have fun!

Not really Mike. Its the transient we hear that clues us in on direction. One big reason bass is non directional is the length of its wave. If you ever hear a bass frequency in a room and it has very low transients it will be very hard to tell its origin.  

Yes, it's about the listening environment - obviously if we listen on headphones it's easy to tell if the bass is somewhat left or right of center. Speakers are a different matter because then the room comes into play. As Mike points out, technically speaking those are different elements but they're joined at the hip in real world listening situations.

These are incredible responses and I feel like I'm going to school BIG TIME on my own thread...definitely above my pay grade...lol.  Thank you all!
 
I'm gonna crawl back under the hood when I get back to the studio and see if I can be specific about some of the differences I was talking about...I find the whole thing very interesting.
 
Aside from an apparent lack of bass level, my mixes suffer mostly from 1% of the gear as the big boys, and more importantly, .000001% of the experience.  ;)  Here's to the climb!!!!

caminitic
Aside from an apparent lack of bass level, my mixes suffer mostly from 1% of the gear as the big boys...

Please don't take this the wrong way, but many classic albums were cut on gear that had 1% of the potential of what's loaded on your computer. And a lot of the mixes had obvious flaws, but they had energy and life. 
 
The trap with getting good and having experience is you then know enough to mix a song to death.
 
To me - and let me emphasize this is a very subjective take on the subject - a mix is a performance. You play the faders like an instrument as you "conduct" your miniature orchestra. As to EQ and dynamics, download the tutorial I did on mixing with the ProChannel. As one person noted, I did some pretty extreme things that break the "rules," but the sound was better afterward, which is the primary rule.
 
The learning curve you need to climb is this: When you listen back and hear something that needs fixing, you need to know how to fix it. That indeed comes from experience. Analyzing what others do may or may not help...
 
Once I was producing an album where there were two oboe parts playing together and they clashed horribly. I found the resonant frequency of one oboe, and used EQ to notch that out on the other oboe and adding a different artificial resonant frequency. The artist starting writing and I asked what he was doing. "Writing down the EQ settings." I had to tell him it was highly unlikely those settings would translate to another situation.
 
You have to listen carefully, identify what's wrong, then fix it...and most importantly, have fun doing it. That's what mixing is all about 

idk, I think I can tell where the bass is coming from.
 
It does probably have to do with the bass sounds starting and stopping, but there doesn't have to be a pronounced transient for me to know which stage is thumping.