Anderton

wanna love X3
Visually show me your workflow for something similar as my scratchpad idea.

I don't see what's so special about the workflow in your videos that hasn't already been addressed in my articles, my posts, and the posts of others. Nor do I want to spend the time to watch your videos repeatedly until I finally do figure out something that may or may not be unique about your approach, because I didn't see anything after one view. So I can only assume I would spend time on doing a video, and you would say "No! That's not what I mean!" because I sure don't see what you're doing that's different in any significant way from how I use X3 as a scratchpad.

 
Ok! so if there's nothing special in my workflow, then please take 10 minutes and show me (and I'm sure numerous others) what I am missing!
And I'm willing to show you how I do it at a normal pace in the middle of a running session in 8.5, It's way, way faster than on my videos where I'm talking/explaining.
 
No talk. Just workflow.
 

I've already told you how to do what you want to do. I have a limited amount of time and would rather help those who already understand the workflow

 
Wouldn't it be more logical for you to help those who don't understand the workflow...? 
Why the "exclusive club" mentality?
 
 

Now, just so you don't go "See! You can't do it! Ha ha ha!," I reserve the right to run Camtasia sometime when I'm putting together a drum loop and you can see for yourself.

Please do! I'm sure it would be helpfull to the countless others like me who are stuck on 8.5.3.
 
Ok?
 
 
 
 
 

I read Craig to be asking you to put a little effort in. It's been pointed out that you can buy lots of good videos if videos are what you want. And books, if books are what you want.
 
I know you are frustrated, but Craig is telling you that a lot of your problem is your understanding of Sonar X3.
 
Take some time with the help files if you don't want to buy videos. To tell the truth, I far prefer reading and trying than watching videos myself, but watching videos is less effort.
 
BTW, to maximize a track, just double click it when you do not have AutoZoom enabled. It doesn't work the same is in 8.5 in that the lanes push down below the screen if you have lanes expanded, so it isn't exactly what you are looking for, but I thought I should point it out.
 
You can use AutoZoom to have track sizes follow each other.
With Lanes, the size of the lanes remains consistent regardless of whether you have AutoZoom on.
 
You can use key bindings to give yourself a shortcut for the CrossFade.
Preferences > Cusomization > Keyboard Shortcuts > Type 'Cross' in the search box > Assign a key to it.

Can we ban the word "workflow"?

BTW, Wanna Love X3, I don't know the best way to do what you are trying to do.
 
I probably would throw the EQ on a bus and route all the tracks to that bus.
 
I can see that for what you are doing Sonar 8.5 worked better.
 
I couldn't make a demo using X3 that would have less steps to do the same thing as you do in 8.5. I could get close, but there would be more clicks to make the same thing happen.
 
Take a look at this post of Craig's...
http://forum.cakewalk.com/m/tm.aspx?m=2957165
 
Anything in there that's helpful?

wanna love X3
Ok! so if there's nothing special in my workflow, then please take 10 minutes and show me (and I'm sure numerous others) what I am missing!
And I'm willing to show you how I do it at a normal pace in the middle of a running session in 8.5, It's way, way faster than on my videos where I'm talking/explaining.

 
Okay, I'll take another look and see if I can figure out what makes your workflow unique. Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but it just doesn't seem that different from what I do.
 

Anderton
I've already told you how to do what you want to do. I have a limited amount of time and would rather help those who already understand the workflow

Wouldn't it be more logical for you to help those who don't understand the workflow...? 

 
That's why I write articles and books. It's clear from my history on this forum I spend a lot of time helping people who don't understand the workflow, as I tried to do with you. However, please remember that this forum is dedicated to people who use X-Series software. I did my best to point you to various resources that might help, but you are convinced it is not possible to have a workflow with X3 that's as efficient as 8.5. So, the solution if for you to keep using 8.5, and for me to continue a dialog with people who actually use X3.
 

Anderton
Now, just so you don't go "See! You can't do it! Ha ha ha!," I reserve the right to run Camtasia sometime when I'm putting together a drum loop and you can see for yourself.

Please do! I'm sure it would be helpfull to the countless others like me who are stuck on 8.5.3.

 
My next video is going to be a version of the seminar I did at GearFest called "Songwriting on the Fast Track." It doesn't address what you're doing with loops, but it is about processes for getting song ideas down fast. Maybe a video on putting together loops the way I think you're doing it would be a good follow-up.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I watched the video again. As far as I can tell, the only unique elements you're taking advantage of compared to Take Lanes is that in layers, clips can overlap each other and play back while sitting in one layer, even if you can't see one behind the other; and you have a shortcut to enable or disable auto-crossfade. Correct?
 
BTW it seems you're splitting to separate a clip into smaller pieces? In X3 is you don't have to split them, you can just drag across a region and drag that region into another take lane or track, or elsewhere in the clip.

Anderton
I watched the video again. As far as I can tell, the only unique elements you're taking advantage of compared to Take Lanes is that in layers, clips can overlap each other and play back while sitting in one layer, even if you can't see one behind the other; and you have a shortcut to enable or disable auto-crossfade. Correct?

 
Yes. And to me this give me a total playground to do try anything I want, it feels like a playground to mess around AND also correct things.

I believe the layout also has something to do with this feeling -

in 8.5 multiple layers still make you feel like you're operating on ONE element, like this
 
X3's multiple lanes makes me feel like I'm in front of a multitrack with many
things to look at, many delimitations and buttons, like this
 

Anderton
BTW it seems you're splitting to separate a clip into smaller pieces? In X3 is you don't have to split them, you can just drag across a region and drag that region into another take lane or track, or elsewhere in the clip.

I tried again this morning to just dive into Lanes, and I just tried right now what you're suggesting with selecting a region and moving. and what stops my brain is : the handle.
 
in 8.5,  I split, grab, and move.
done.
 
in x3 I split (or I select like you mentioned) and then I have to AIM. I have to carefully use my eyes so the mouse falls on on a little narrow dark section over the clip.
 
It might not seem like much but to me it's a step too much If I want to be quick. and flipping from select tool to move tool (F6/F7) constantly would be a drag

wanna love X3
 
in x3 I split once, twice (or I select like you mentioned) and then I have to AIM. I have to carefully use my eyes so the mouse falls on on a little narrow dark section over the clip.
 
It might not seem like much but to me it's a step too much If I want to be quick.

There are many more hotspots on clips in X3 and yes... it gets a little ridiculous BUT you still have all the other tools. I recommend taking advantage of the toggle tool hotkey so you can quickly switch to what you need. I usually toggle between the Smart Tool and the Move Tool when cruising around the Clips Pane. You can also pop up the HUD at any time by pressing T (I think) and then select what you need. The HUD appears wherever your cursor is currently at.
 
Actually, I think what would be the best set up for what you just described is just keep the Move Tool as the main tool and either toggle to the Split Tool OR set the Now Time, select the clip, Press S (to split). For the latter you could make it easier to learn how to jog the Now Time with the Arrow keys with Snap enabled to get the Now Time exactly where you want then split.
 
However the first option would be the better point and shoot method which honestly... I think wandering around with the cursor is more time consuming, prone to weirdness and less accurate than using the keyboard in the long run for extensive editing.
 
This really is minutia though. I spend a loooooot of time scratch tracking in Sonar. It is how I write. It took me a while to figure out a flow (and it is still developing) but it can be done rather easily if you understand what is going on. Believe me... when I first tried to work this way in X3 it was a major pain until I learned a) that I could switch to Sound on Sound to get rid of the Comping oddities and b) eventually learned how and why Comping did what it did (and now I can easily work in Comping mode specifically because I now understand the resulting behavior).
 
So... if you are completely unwilling to bend your workflow even a little or bother spending the time to explore the program I think this thread is over. You've gotten multiple solutions and even had a well respected professional educator hold your hand and explain things step by step so you can accomplish what you claim to need.
 
If you that ain't enough for ya then you'll just have to work with 8.5 as your scratchpad/editing platform and then mix in X3 if you want the extra tools. There is nothing wrong with that and when I had problems with X2 I was going to do the exact same thing (except track/edit in another DAW entirely then import to X2 for mixing).
 
Sooo... get on with it. You have some studying to do. Good luck.

FWIW, I've had an offline exchange with the poster and he is not a troll, or another alt for the troll posts we've experienced lately. I realize the modus operandi seems the same, but he is a legit user who genuinely likes the way 8.5 works and has adapted his style of working to it. It is a style that is very specific and doesn't really lend itself to X3, hence his issue.
 
I can see both sides. He wants to be able to keep doing what's he's doing. As an analogy, if 8.5 is a six-string guitar, he wants X3 to be a 12-string - he can play it the same way, but do more. Personally, after adapting my workflow to 8.5 and to X3 to take advantage of each program's unique features, on balance I much prefer X3. However, I do recognize that some things have been lost. This is the basis for my "we lost 20% but gained 150%" comment.
 
The problem as I see it is the person who started this thread already has something that works, and doesn't want to interrupt what he does with essentially learning a new program in the hope that after an investment of time, he'll like X3. If he does, then he will be in the majority of the people here but if not, he will have wasted that time, will want to return to 8.5, and not be able to take advantage of all the cool features that X3 does offer.
 
However, my ultimate takeaway is that I really should do some videos about how to get ideas down fast with X3, including creating loops. I already have a video planned around doing conventional songwriting rapidly with X3, so doing one on more loop-based material would be a good follow-up. Whether it would benefit the poster or not is uncertain, but I do feel it would benefit current X3 users.

I went back and found Eli Krantzberg's video
Groove 3 Inc. SONAR X1 Tips & Tricks Video Download
That was for sale through Cakewalk for a while. It's a good one with some nice tricks in it.
 
In the video, he demonstrates how to use Audio Snap and Split to Clips as a starting point for doing this kind of loop construction.
 
In one of Craig Anderton's videos, he demonstrates how to use nudge on the 10 key pad to bump things left and right by increments, which is an interesting use of shortcuts for this type of sound design. Craig, do you remember demonstrating nudge? Maybe it was Eli, I can't remember now.