Beepster

I used to work in an ancient version of one of the competitors that did not have lanes or layers at all and it took some getting used to to work with the new way but after a rather brief learning curve it is far superior.
 
If you are completely resistant to learning the new way there is nothing stopping you from tracking and editing in 8.5 then importing to X3 to access the far superior mixing tools and environment.
 
There has been thousands of complaints over the course of the X series from long time Sonar users about the drastic changes but now with X3 even the most vocal opponents to the new way have acknowledged its superiority. You just have to give it a chance. You are basically learning an entirely new DAW which is always a pain but they aren't gonna change it back... which suits me just fine.
 
Cheers.

I would love to see (instead of read) how great lane is working for you really, because besides comping ONE track I don't see the interest.

With Layers, from a few passes of ONE lead vocal I could comp a lead, a double and two stereo sides in a blink of an eye. It's now impossible to do so.

I do this for a living and I HAVE to learn new tools and new ways all the time, I use Live in conjunction with sonar cause I needed
to use learn something new that Sonar could not do. My issue is that Sonar DID something no other software did, and doesn't do it anymore

And if there's been thousands of complaints like you're saying, well there's a reason for that wouldn't you say?

Can you post a video showing what is superior? Or can you point me to one? you or anyone else? I would really appreciate it

Beepster
And there is nothing clunky about the current crossfade method. It works great and is customizable just like traditional fading. It's all about learning the hotspots.
 
Honestly I don't know what they did but the auto X-Fades are almost perfect by default. I used to spend hours carefully crafting fades manually because I HATED how most X-Fades sounded. I just stitched together a bunch of stuff yesterday and all I had to do was adjust a few splits and in some more problematic areas extend the fades a bit. Before I would have spent ages cropping tracks, adjust fade lengths, changing curves, etc... Literally hours of work done in a few minutes because of the new comping stuff.
 
My ears haven't changed. My OCD hasn't disappeared (if anything it's become more intense) so I can only conclude that auto x-fades in X3 are superior to anything I've used before... that includes X1 and X2 (both of which sucked for stitching and I actually had to either get my takes done in one long clip or create new tracks for each clip because otherwise the overlap sounded like arse even with meticulously crafted fades).
 
Just sayin'.
 

Maybe the problems you had with X-fades had to do with your OCD?

Just sayin :)

It's an entirely new product so that would be hard... There's plenty of Sonar videos out on YouTube for you to research (inc take lanes). There's have been tons of debates in the past in these forums that have gone silent now which says it all really. Most people who have upgraded would probably never go back. There were growing pains with X1/X2. Now is the time with X3 to upgrade to Sonar.

My advice is to get Google and YouTube out and do your own research.... Cheers...

Anderton
Don't know if this is relevant, but when I checked windows for optional updates nvidia had an audio driver update for the graphics card in my laptop.

I just saw this. The one that MS supplies is totally out of date and has been known to crash systems (hide it from your updates!). It seems to persist even when you may have later drivers installed. So don't install!! :) Get the very latest from nVidias site I did supply a link earlier. Just install the right driver for the model of your graphics card.

Cheers..

.

.

CakeAlexS
It's an entirely new product so that would be hard... There's plenty of Sonar videos out on YouTube for you to research (inc take lanes). There's have been tons of debates in the past in these forums that have gone silent now which says it all really. Most people who have upgraded would probably never go back. There were growing pains with X1/X2. Now is the time with X3 to upgrade to Sonar.

My advice is to get Google and YouTube out and do your own research.... Cheers...

I followed your advice and gave another morning for this... I watched videos and read articles on cake's site and other sites, my conclusion remains the same:

this is a tool tailored for one thing only: the comping of ONE track.

It's a place to fix one track.

It's not (anymore) a place to fix AND experiment AND create many tracks within the same track!

It feels like it's thought out for the engineering side of production, but not the creative side of it.

I swear to you all that when people from other environements saw what I was doing with layers they were wondering when such freedom would make it to their DAW.

Maybe the bakers don't understand what they had going with layers... because right now, as far as i am concerned, x3 feels as restricted as the daw next door.

but what do i know...

back to layers

wanna love X3

I would love to see (instead of read) how great lane is working for you really, because besides comping ONE track I don't see the interest.

With Layers, from a few passes of ONE lead vocal I could comp a lead, a double and two stereo sides in a blink of an eye. It's now impossible to do so.

I do this for a living and I HAVE to learn new tools and new ways all the time, I use Live in conjunction with sonar cause I needed
to use learn something new that Sonar could not do. My issue is that Sonar DID something no other software did, and doesn't do it anymore

And if there's been thousands of complaints like you're saying, well there's a reason for that wouldn't you say?

Can you post a video showing what is superior? Or can you point me to one? you or anyone else? I would really appreciate it

Okay, you're all over the place here. What do you mean "comp a lead, double and two stereo sides"? Are you talking about tracks that have been recorded simultaneously? If so that is what the "Group Clips In Folders" function is for. You set it before recording and as you comp one track all the other tracks follow the same edits.
 
OR do you mean taking a single track and creating overlapping copies for various panning and pitch changes? In which case those clips should not be in the same track anyway and you can edit them normally with lanes closed. It's helpful to get the original track to be a good full clip to work with (by using the flatten feature) then clone the track as needed.
 
Layers were not intended to act like tracks (nor are lanes). You do not allow multiple clips to sound at the same time in the same track except for very briefly during crossfades.
 
Of course everyone is entitled to their own creative process but what you seem to be describing is not a very effective or logical one for a professional.
 
And yes... I used to try to do the same thing when I first started using X1 because I didn't know any better. The results were bad and the workflow counter productive and confusing.
 
BUT... even still you can more or less do that anyway using Sound On Sound. You just have to have lanes open while doing so.
 
As far as the "complaints" that was in the X1 days which was a massive change and had quite a few REAL problems with it. They petered out a LITTLE with X2 (but new complaints cropped up). With X3 everyone has a) gotten used to the new workflow and mostly agree it's better and b) the program itself is much more mature. My point was you are making 3 year old complaints that everyone has gotten over by now because they took the time to learn the program and now like it better (aside from some very minor/user specific things).
 
The video that best describes Comping is the one in the CakeTV section of this site aptly titled "Comping". It moves quickly but has most of the pertinent info on Comping. I'm sure you have already watched it but watch it again and again and again all the while taking notes. Then read the manual entry THEN try using them again. It will do most things and the things it won't can be done in the other record modes or by simply altering your workflow a bit.

And now after reading your complaint to Alex I think I may be getting a better picture of one of you gripes. To create alternate versions of a comp within the same track simply put your first comp together then right click the parent track and select Flatten. It will mix down and create a brand new take lane and clip for that version. Then you can create a different comp without losing the first one (because the flattened one gets locked for editing so it does not get split or futzed with like the others) then flatten that one. You can create as many variations of your comp as you want. I think it will even mixed down overlapped audio created using Sound On Sound so if you did some vocal double in another lane or whatever they would be bounced in together with the flattened clip.
 
So yeah... you need to learn this tool a little better before crapping on it. It is very useful.

Yes we've heard this all before to be honest. It takes one to know one, it took me a while to understand it myself although my approach was different in that I recognised the gaps in my knowledge at the time.