• SONAR
  • Zero latency? (p.2)
2014/07/16 22:47:00
Splat
I used zero latency on my focusrite religiously for about 6 months. Then after that I couldn't be bothered. Nothing changed.
2014/07/16 23:35:43
TomHelvey
I always use an analog mixer for monitoring both my DAW and the audio being recorded so I've never noticed any latency doing overdubs. I can set my sample buffers to max if I need to and everything is still nicely synced.
I don't play or record through guitar amp plugins, even at the lowest sample buffer sizes the latency drives me nuts. I'd probably record a direct signal and reamp if I wanted to go that route.
 
2014/07/17 10:56:27
57Gregy
Ditto. I have my Saffire's latency set to it's max, 40 ms, and never had a problem recording.
2014/07/17 19:13:39
Splat
I'm stable with 128ms on my Safire Pro 40 (firewire). I don't get any noticeable delay, if I did I would go back to the zero latency feature using Mix Control.
 
Good point about "not all systems". It's always useful for people to display their full specs in their signature.
2014/07/21 17:51:20
brconflict
I'd been begging MOTU to provide VST plug-in compatibility with their near-zero latency CueMix, but they didn't even bother responding to requests from me. So, my next thought was to ask CW for a Project Freeze function. What I've done is export a rough mix of the music to two tracks, then create a new project, import the Exported Audio, use the Echo function with a Compressor to track vocals with great latency control, then Export the vocal tracks back to the original project. That's a bit process/time consuming, but works for me.
 
With that said, if I could emulate the mixdown like an Export Entire Mix, where Sonar would merely play the mix as if it were an Exported 2-track mix, disabling the ability to change anything with the original mix, I could essentially remove ALL latency in the project created by processing or plug-ins, etc.
 
This works like Freezing tracks. If the track is frozen, it's processed down to just playing back the audio. However, freezing all the tracks still requires them play individually and through a buss. But if you could simply freeze the entire project, except the selected tracks (if any are selected), the project plays back as if from Windows Media Player. If all the processing is gone from the playback by freezing the whole project aside from new tracks you armed for recording vocals, in theory, you could get the lowest latency possible while adding a compressor to your tracking vocals using the echo button. Sound good?
2014/07/22 09:54:20
DeeringAmps
Brian,
I'm confused!
Bounce a 2-track mix, archive all tracks (easy if everything is in folders) and track away.
BUT, trying to apply VST compression to an incoming track?
I don't think that works...
 
Tom
2014/07/22 10:29:05
John
DeeringAmps
Brian,
I'm confused!
Bounce a 2-track mix, archive all tracks (easy if everything is in folders) and track away.
BUT, trying to apply VST compression to an incoming track?
I don't think that works...
 
Tom


Right Tom. No it doesn't.  Sonar can't apply effects to the streaming signal as it is being recorded. It only does it after it is sent to disk. One reason Sonar is non destructive. When one uses input echo the effect is applied to the output not the recorded audio.
2014/07/22 11:54:24
shmuelyosef
57Gregy
Ditto. I have my Saffire's latency set to it's max, 40 ms, and never had a problem recording.


I'm a multi-instrumentalist, and my latency tolerance varies:
saxophone - I can track in time at latencies up to 40mx like Gregy...no problem
keyboards - I've been playing keys >>50 years, but I have trouble tracking in time with latencies above 10msec
Drums or hand percussion - to get the swing and nuance of polyrhythms right and be able to track 'in the groove' I need pretty low latencies...<5msec. I have noticed over the years as well that the best drum circle sessions are the ones in very tight spaces where we are all crammed together. The emergent grooves are always tighter.
 
That said, I saw a Yellowjackets concert last weekend where they were spread across a large stage, and the Ferrante (on piano) was probably 25-30 feet from Pastorius and Kennedy (bass and keys)...I did notice that they were fiddling with the monitors for the first half hour and had their own sound guy. 
 
 
2014/07/22 12:00:21
shmuelyosef
CakeAlexS
I'm stable with 128ms on my Safire Pro 40 (firewire). I don't get any noticeable delay, if I did I would go back to the zero latency feature using Mix Control.



Wow! I use a Saffire Pro 40 as well, and I can't do ANY live tracking of a MIDI synth at 128ms...fries my brain. Just a complete non-starter. Recorded audio with bounce-back from the Saffire is fine (i.e. hardware synth, miked instrument/voice). 
 
Just curious about latency...is anyone aware of measurements of latency in hardware keyboards? I would expect 2-3 msec, but curious if it has been measured. Sometimes I feel like playing the Grand Piano in my Nord with headphones is more 'live' than playing the Mason & Hamlin in my living room!
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