shmuelyosef

CakeAlexS
I'm stable with 128ms on my Safire Pro 40 (firewire). I don't get any noticeable delay, if I did I would go back to the zero latency feature using Mix Control.

Wow! I use a Saffire Pro 40 as well, and I can't do ANY live tracking of a MIDI synth at 128ms...fries my brain.

I think he means 128 sample buffers.

DeeringAmps
Brian,
I'm confused!
Bounce a 2-track mix, archive all tracks (easy if everything is in folders) and track away.
BUT, trying to apply VST compression to an incoming track?
I don't think that works...
 
Tom

 
(EDIT) Yeah, if you use the Echo function, it doesn't apply the VST plug-in to the incoming signal. It just feels that way as the singer is tracking. However, if Sonar is processing ALL the VST's and tracks as they are in raw form, the Echo function is useless on even a modest project, even if the tracks are individually frozen. 

If you Export an Entire Mix, using the Export function, then Import the resulting mix into a new Project, you can playback the mixdown from the new project without having Sonar to use plug-ins or processing. Then, you can simply track new vocals using the Echo button, while adding VST effects to the new vocals on the fly with low latency in most cases.
 
In this case, the original project is minimized or stored away. After you've tracked the vocals in the new project, you can take those clips and either Cut/Paste or export/import the new vocal tracks into the original project, where all your latency-causing plug-ins reside.
 
The idea is that you can eliminate the latency caused by plug-ins so that you can record vocals in a new project with nearly zero latency (as close as possible, anyway)
 
Does that help clarify? 
 
What I'd like to see is for Sonar to allow me to "freeze" and Entire Mix, much like freezing a single track, where Sonar processes the Entire Mix and plays it back is it would a frozen track.

Not sure how relevant this is now, but back in the early 2000s I got a Line6 TonePort device, one of the first with near-zero monitoring, I think.  The nice thing at the time is that you could set your mix to something intolerable like 40ms and still play your guitar or record your vocals WITH effects via the Toneport software at something more like 2-5ms.  So, when you had a really full-of-effects project, you could easily add in your effect-laden guitar stack or several layers of vocals with reverb with no problem.
 
It was REALLY helpful.  Of course, now with more power in PCs, better driver stacks, etc, getting lower latencies later in a project is a lot more realistic than it was then.  I still occasionally like to use this method when I think of it, rather than going through the freeze process or similar, which are a creativity killer for me.  This is one of the reasons why the vDrums kit still trumps any sample librsary I've tried.  The latency is VERY noticeably better for getting groove nuances and feel when playing even if technically the samples are better in a drum library.  I just can't DEAL with any noticeable latency when tracking drums.  It just wrecks it for me.
 
I think if you have an option to be able to get closer to zero (regardless of what it actually measures at) you should do whatever you can to get there.  I'd rather record with no effects/completely dry (of course not reasonable with effected guitar sounds) than to have a little latency.  It takes a little getting used to, but its easier to do and the end result is simply much tighter recordings.
 
There's my $.02, anyway.

Anderton

shmuelyosef

CakeAlexS
I'm stable with 128ms on my Safire Pro 40 (firewire). I don't get any noticeable delay, if I did I would go back to the zero latency feature using Mix Control.

Wow! I use a Saffire Pro 40 as well, and I can't do ANY live tracking of a MIDI synth at 128ms...fries my brain.

I think he means 128 sample buffers.

Indeed so. Senior moment sorry.

Brian, got it!
HOWEVER, bounce the mix, archive the tracks, and we have the same end result; no?
I guess my way makes more sense, to ME, as this has been my workflow since the ProAudio days.
The introduction of folders made archiving tracks fast and easy.
Of course buy a StudioCat and it's all pretty much moot.
I think the RME is a bit more efficient than the FW1884 was/is as well.
Different strokes I guess.
T

Can you bounce the entire mix with one Right-Click => Bounce? That's what I want. One Global Freeze button.

Blades
Not sure how relevant this is now, but back in the early 2000s I got a Line6 TonePort device, one of the first with near-zero monitoring, I think.  The nice thing at the time is that you could set your mix to something intolerable like 40ms and still play your guitar or record your vocals WITH effects via the Toneport software at something more like 2-5ms.  So, when you had a really full-of-effects project, you could easily add in your effect-laden guitar stack or several layers of vocals with reverb with no problem.

Their Tone Direct Monitoring does have latency, but it's really low. It's interacting at very low levels in the operating system.
 
The tradeoff is that if you record, you're recording the processed sound - not recording the dry sound and "re-amping" afterwards, as happens with conventional plug-ins. However, this means you have to commit to a sound in the recording process, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

brconflict
Can you bounce the entire mix with one Right-Click => Bounce? That's what I want. One Global Freeze button.

Not much more than one click:
Ctrl-A
Bounce to Track(s) and enter
then holding the Ctrl key archive one of the tracks
 
It can be fewer keystrokes using AutoHotkey

scook

brconflict
Can you bounce the entire mix with one Right-Click => Bounce? That's what I want. One Global Freeze button.

Not much more than one click:
Ctrl-A
Bounce to Track(s) and enter
then holding the Ctrl key archive one of the tracks
 
It can be fewer keystrokes using AutoHotkey

This is totally bizarre but I was writing the exact same thing at the exact same time. I posted it, saw your post, and then deleted mine. There seems to be some synchronization...
 
I'll add this about "unfreezing":
 
If the archived tracks are still selected: Ctrl-click on the premix's A button. This archives the premix and takes the other tracks out of the archived state.
 
If the archived tracks are no longer selected: Ctrl-click on any of their A buttons, and they'll be taken out of the archived state and the premix will be archived. 
 
In either case whatever isn't selected will be archived, so you'll need to unarchive any overdubs you did to the premix.
 

Thanks for the input. I think you guys understand what I can do to accomplish the task, and I'll give the latest a try, but I just wanted to politely re-iterate, a Global freeze is what I desire, which can freeze the entire project, then unfreeze. Just to simplify the whole thing and make it work easily every time. One snowflake button in the Control bar. I think that would be awesome.