• SONAR
  • Breverb and Altering Waves with Effects.
2014/07/22 16:16:44
RexRed
It seems when I first create a few tracks in Cakewalk they seem magical in some way. There is a simple accompaniment and very few edits but as time goes by and slowly I add compression, EQ and reverb something along the way gets lost.
 
I am not blaming this on the editing tools but more so the editor (myself).
 
I start hearing where i dropped t's and esses. I hear slight variations in pitch and suddenly my perfect tracks become a hodgepodge of fixes.
 
Somewhere along the line after flatting out the loud spots and bringing up the quieter passages the transparency of the initial mix is lost. But this process must be done in order to make the song "radio ready". The song needs to be flattened and squished into a tiny box so it can be listened to on speakers with a 16'th of an inch diaphragm (exaggeration) so the bass does not rattle the heck out of them.
 
Why did i mention Breverb?
 
Well it seems that reverb is what brings the spaciousness back into a mix but i cannot seem to figure out how to apply it.
 
Usually reverb in my tracks sounds dead and muffled. I listen to professional recordings as the reverb on them sounds pristine and the room is perfectly sized. How do I achieve that? I assume it is done by leveling reverb buses but what types of reverb are usually used on slow lyrics versus fast lyrics.
 
I have tried perfect space with no luck, sonitus reverb is not working either. But lately Breverb seems to have something a bit closer but still it is also a hit-or-miss thing. It seems reverb is the missing link to bringing back the transparency of my dead flat tracks but i feel like I am swimming in guesswork. It sounds good and I come back and listen to it later and it sounds muddy so I bring the reverb down and then it sounds stark and dry.
 
What do you all do to add depth to your mixes? Can you give me tips specifically on breverb? What settings do you use on vocals and other instruments?  For instance I never put reverb on bass elements. Do you use a hall on vocals or a combination of a few reverb presets? What about reverb on harmonies?
 
 
Have you found any great tutorials on using breverb?
 
Any help would be much appreciated.
 
This is a discussion on reverb and Breverb in particular, eq, compression and leveling.
 
I am checking out youtube now just thought i would post this here first.
2014/07/22 16:38:19
CJaysMusic
What do you all do to add depth to your mixes? Can you give me tips specifically on breverb? What settings do you use on vocals and other instruments?

Every song i mixed have had different settings, so your asking a question that may take years to answer, as i would have to go through thousands of songs and write down each signal chain and gain stage. No thank you. 
 
Every song will need different things done to it. Mixing is not connecting the dots. Think of it like painting. No 2 paintings are the same and the artist that painted each painting used different colors, brushes, brush strokes and tools to get the painting to where he or she wanted it to be.
 
As far a Breverb and any other reverb:
If you learn how a reverb works and what each setting does in a reverb, you can dial in your own sounds thta fit that particular track and song. Each song and tracks will need different things done to it and different settigns for each effect in order for it to sound the way you want it. 
 
This explains what each setting does in a reverb:
http://www.audio-mastering-mixing.com/faq---q-a.html#28
 
CJ
2014/07/22 16:41:08
John
How are you using it? Give details. When I use reverb I often use sends and have the reverb on an aux buss. I will if needed vary the amount sent to the aux depending on the track. I try never to have too much reverb which is easy to do.  And I will use two different types, sometimes. The one on the aux and using sends will often be Breverb or one like it then I will use a convolution reverb on the master buss to create an acoustic space/place. I adjust the mix of its wet dry so it sounds right. The aux one will often be 100% wet. But I will lower the fader going to the master buss from that aux buss.
 
There is a nice article in this months SoundBytes web magazine about depth in a mix using reverb. here http://soundbytesmag.net/ 
2014/07/22 17:15:01
Sanderxpander
There are so many techniques and musical styles, even without being an expert in all of them (or any of them) it's easy to see you're not going to get a "magic fix" out of this discussion. Maybe some useful tips:
When I want something to sound as if it's in a certain room or space, I use an impulse based convolution reverb (like Perfect Space, in my case, a Waves offering).
When I want something to sound like a pleasing reverb I go for an algorithmic type and I really like BReverb and use it a lot.

Like John, I use the first type as an insert and the second on a send bus. If it's on a send bus I keep it 100 percent wet (so in BReverb that means turning off the dry).
Like you, I don't generally put reverb on bass elements (unless the reverb is the first type and the drumbus or entire mix are going through there).

It's a good idea to experiment with the amount and the level of predelay, especially in algorithmic reverbs where you just want them to make another part "shine" it makes a lot of difference in the sound. Check the extra parameters in BReverb by switching the tabbed menu up top.

I generally use "a couple" of reverbs on a complete project. I try to keep it simple and also feel it's better for the mix to not use too many different ones. I will usually have a separate one for the lead vocal and one for the snare.
I like starting my lead vocal verb with the "a capella vox" preset. I always edit it right away but it's somehow become the starting point on my way to better things.

I sometimes create an artificial parallel "room" bus for the drums with a convolution verb if the plug or loop or actual recording didn't have one. I slam it with something like an 1176 or anything that fits at that time, and mix it with the regular drums. I think this is a very common trick but since you're asking for tips...

EDIT:
Also as general advice on compression and mixing - if you're thinking your mix sounds flat, that's probably because you used too much compression. I don't know this for sure but it's definitely a common problem. Nowadays, in my humble opinion, compressors (especially software ones) don't really have the same function anymore. They should mostly be used because you want a certain sound character that's derived from the effect of compression or from that specific compressor. If your issue is fluctuating dynamics, you need to be less lazy and automate the **** out of your mix ;)
Really, you'd be shocked to see the amount of automation that goes into professional productions, especially on things like lead vocal and bass. You will not only keep a more dynamic and less flattened sound, but you will also be able to adjust individual dynamic differences, not to mention your compressors can now be used purely for the sound they impart (as long as you used clip envelopes, rather than volume fader envelopes).
2014/07/22 17:37:54
Anderton
If you need to understand what the various reverb parameters do, here's an article.
2014/07/22 17:45:33
sharke
I high pass and low pass the snot out of the signal before it goes into the reverb, around 500-600Hz for the high pass filter and around 10-12kHz for the low pass. I find in my case anyway that allowing frequencies outside of that band into the reverb return just adds mud and brittleness to the mix and adds clutter. Having said that, if it's a solo part then I may widen that band for effect.

I'm also heading towards using less reverb in my mixes. A careful use of delay can add space to a mix without the need for reverb. You can get a more upfront sound like this. Try it for the instruments you want to position at the front of the mix. Add a delay to each one and pan it to the opposite side of the stereo field. For instance, if you have a guitar panned at 60L then add a delay at 60R. Try rolling the highs (or the lows) off the delayed signal to make it sound different. And experiment with different reverb times.

For the instruments at the back, add a little stereo reverb to blend them. Don't be afraid to use two different reverbs on an instrument - sometimes I'll send a little to a shared room or hall reverb, and a little to a mono reverb that's panned the same as or a little to the side of the instrument. But experiment with panning a mono reverb to the opposite side. Above all, use a little bit less than you normally would. It's surprising how little you need. Sometimes a good gauge is to add reverb at a level at which you think you can't hear it, but when you turn it off you sense the difference.
2014/07/22 17:55:25
RexRed
Thanks for the exhaustive replies people. I would like to take this thread to its farthest point so that there is a wealth of info here. Eqing, and compression, meh, they seem cut and dry after about a week of study on youtube... but as CJAYS indicates, reverb seems to be the one that takes the longest to master.
 
I left reverb last, not sure why, I have mastered compression, eqing and even song mastering figuring that reverb was just an aesthetic thing of taste. It turns out, to me, that reverb resuscitates the tracks after editing and brings them back to life. So please talk on, tell us about your specific experiences you have had with certain songs. How do you treat drums, pads, vocals, harmonies, solo instruments with reverb and please be as detailed as possible about bus setups and presets you start off with. If you are bored please use this thread to let it all out! Every mixing engineer has a basic setup (or "program" that I like to call it) they start with then go on from there. Do you add doubling? What order do you put your echos, flanges, delays and reverbs?  I usually go flange, doubling, chorusing, reverbs (in that order)... I remember my old Ibanez dual digital delay that had the purple knobs. God didn't i love that thing (I got burned out playing with the settings) but i wish at the time i had 20 of them. Now it is a dream, i can drag and drop delays at will. This idea was inconceivable only a few short years ago. The younger generation does no know what we went through to achieve even a fraction of what is readily available today. And even with the advances of today's plugins the newbies are still swimming in a sea of VST confusion. :)  
 
 
2014/07/22 18:22:28
RexRed
Ever noticed that in headphones versus near field monitors reverb does different things... what is up with that? How do you balance between the two?
 
If I recall correctly, in headphones you can get away with a lot of reverb where it shows up in near field monitors like a sore thumb... Must be the way the reverb cancels itself out in the air that is the difference... 
 
This is where doing different things in each stereo channel seems to pay off in the final mix. I have heard that certain reverbs can induce sonic altered states of consciousness. (haha!) 
2014/07/22 18:25:22
John
Keep in mind that reverb as we have it in our DAWs is an easily abused effect. In the Blue Note recordings of 60s they used no effects at all. What they got was what the room provided. They also didn't mix anything. For stereo they used two mics and it went right to two channel tape. Their recording are still used as benchmarks of great music and recordings.
 
  
2014/07/22 19:04:07
RexRed
John
How are you using it? Give details. When I use reverb I often use sends and have the reverb on an aux buss. I will if needed vary the amount sent to the aux depending on the track. I try never to have too much reverb which is easy to do.  And I will use two different types, sometimes. The one on the aux and using sends will often be Breverb or one like it then I will use a convolution reverb on the master buss to create an acoustic space/place. I adjust the mix of its wet dry so it sounds right. The aux one will often be 100% wet. But I will lower the fader going to the master buss from that aux buss.
 
There is a nice article in this months SoundBytes web magazine about depth in a mix using reverb. here http://soundbytesmag.net/ 


Got another link, that one did not work for me. :(
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