Sanderxpander
Not to be annoying, but I have never heard the term "low pass shelf", I can understand what is meant but in my experience "low pass" and "high pass" are used for cut filters. A low pass shelf is a high shelf.

Glad to hear you got this song figured out! Turns out it was an EQ thing after all ;)

 
You will notice there is a button in the prochannel mixer which has two states one state is shelf enabled and the other is called shelf disabled. 
 
There is a shelf for high pass and a shelf for low pass.
 
i.e. shelf enabled/shelf disabled... for more info please consult the Cakewalk users manual. 
 
:)
 
I tried the bus reverb and that has worked really nicely and I also tried using delay so I could back off from the reverb a bit.
I have a dilemma,
 
For most of this song I have three part harmony, main vocal center and two other vocals panned left and right.
 
I wanted to do something phase wise for the reverb bus but leaving one harmony left or right dryer is not really working.
Been thinking of making two reverb buses.
 
If it was just one vocal then dickering with the reverb balance and/or L R time would work but having three vocals seems to be confusing me a bit.
 
Any suggestions on how to treat this so there not only one reverb depth across the panning spectrum? 
 
I would like to add some contrasting texture across the reverb spectrum but the three vocals are confusing me a bit.
 
Also I will look this up but is the buss version of Breverb in Cakewalk a "limited" product is there a fuller version available? 
 
I noticed some parameters in a Breverb video on youtube that do not seem to be in the bus Breverb version in Cakewalk.
 
I am really liking what i hear in Breverb now.
 
I guess all of the reverbs are working well for me now that the instrument sparkle has been tamed. :)
 
 
 
 

RexRed

Sanderxpander
Not to be annoying, but I have never heard the term "low pass shelf", I can understand what is meant but in my experience "low pass" and "high pass" are used for cut filters. A low pass shelf is a high shelf.

Glad to hear you got this song figured out! Turns out it was an EQ thing after all ;)

 
You will notice there is a button in the prochannel mixer which has two states one state is shelf enabled and the other is called shelf disabled. 
 
There is a shelf for high pass and a shelf for low pass.
 
i.e. shelf enabled/shelf disabled... for more info please consult the Cakewalk users manual. 
 

No you can enable a high shelf and a low shelf. Enabling them means switching from a bell curve to a shelf. The low pass filter and high pass filter are separate from this. A low pass filter is basically a high cut. A high pass filter is a low cut. "Low pass shelf" doesn't make any functional sense.
Perhaps you're confused because they're right next to each other?

Sanderxpander

RexRed

Sanderxpander
Not to be annoying, but I have never heard the term "low pass shelf", I can understand what is meant but in my experience "low pass" and "high pass" are used for cut filters. A low pass shelf is a high shelf.

Glad to hear you got this song figured out! Turns out it was an EQ thing after all ;)

 
You will notice there is a button in the prochannel mixer which has two states one state is shelf enabled and the other is called shelf disabled. 
 
There is a shelf for high pass and a shelf for low pass.
 
i.e. shelf enabled/shelf disabled... for more info please consult the Cakewalk users manual. 
 

No you can enable a high shelf and a low shelf. Enabling them means switching from a bell curve to a shelf. The low pass filter and high pass filter are separate from this. A low pass filter is basically a high cut. A high pass filter is a low cut. "Low pass shelf" doesn't make any functional sense.
Perhaps you're confused because they're right next to each other?

I am not confused at all about the "low pass shelf" or "high pass shelf". It seems, you are...
Please consult Cakewalk technical support if you think there is a misuse of the word "shelf"... 
 
A shelf implies a complete cut of all upper (low pass) or lower (high pass) frequencies. No confusion at all about that on my end.
 
As simple as the concept of an equalizer is we can all learn a thing or two from time to time.
 
For instance, I have never recorded a balalaika before. I am not sure exactly where its primary frequencies fall along the sound spectrum. A simple web search and that might fill in the blanks, so to speak.
 
The reason for "charts" is so we don't have to memorize countless amounts of extraneous data.
I have to wear all the hats in my profession, and i am not too proud to ask for help and to be wrong. People who want to dedicate their life to music these days are hard to find. I just don't appreciate people who rub my errors in my face just to elevate themselves...
 
I have to write my song lyrics, copyright them, sing them, compose the music, play all the instruments, engineer sound equipment, be a computer techie geek, record, mix master, publish, be my own label, and network.
 
I certainly expect being spread so thin that there be holes in my understanding that is why I am here, not only to impart some of my own learning but also to learn even if it makes me seem stupid.

Err no that's not what a shelf is at all.
http://www.soundonsound.c...ticles/equalisers1.asp
 
FWIW, I certainly don't want to rub errors in your face to elevate myself. It's just helpful to make sure we're talking about the same things. You were pretty adamant about having mastered EQ and compression before by the way, when people (myself included) were giving you tips on them.

wikipedia says:

• A low-shelf filter passes all frequencies, but increases or reduces frequencies below the shelf frequency by specified amount.
• A high-shelf filter passes all frequencies, but increases or reduces frequencies above the shelf frequency by specified amount.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_design

Sanderxpander
Err no that's not what a shelf is at all.
http://www.soundonsound.c...ticles/equalisers1.asp
 
FWIW, I certainly don't want to rub errors in your face to elevate myself. It's just helpful to make sure we're talking about the same things. You were pretty adamant about having mastered EQ and compression before by the way, when people (myself included) were giving you tips on them.

Your input in the discussion Sander is much a appreciated and thanks for taking the time to respond. I hope at any point i did not imply otherwise. If so I am sorry. Your future participation is very valued here. 
 
 

jb101
Joking aside, I am guessing that your mixes are probably over compressed and over EQ-ed, and that is what is causing the problem.
 
Don't compress or EQ a track, just because you can.
 
Maybe try to get a static fader mix.  Then play the project back, and if one of the tracks makes you reach for the fader, then think about compressing it.
 
Sometimes a track may not need any EQ, if it is recorded well, apart from maybe a HPF or LPF.  Use EQ to carve out a space for each track, but there is no need to overdo it.  If a track sits well in a mix without EQ, then leave it alone.

Not so long ago i was over compressing my tracks from time to time wandering aimlessly with the compressor then someone on a youtube video said something that completely struck home.
 
They said (in their own words) when you put compression on a track it is additive, but when you master a track and put compression on it "multiplies" the track compression it does not simply add more.
 
This pretty much solved most of my compression errors in one statement.
 
Now I compress only the slight peaks in a sound and if there are large jumps in a track I use a brick wall limiter. I rarely ever use more than a 4:1 ratio and rarely if ever above -4 DB.
 
This idea of mastering compression multiplying my track compression simplified my track compression use exponentially and caused me to back way off the compressor's use.
 
Suddenly the compressor was no longer such an enigma to me.
 
 
 
 
 

As far as background vocals are concerned, my general strategy would be to send them to their own bus for common EQ/compression, then send some from that bus to the reverb bus. I'd probably have more reverb on the backing vocals than the lead vocal, to make them sound further back. You could use the same reverb bus for both backing and lead, or you could say use a hall reverb for the backing vocals and a plate (mono or stereo) for the lead.

My favorite reverb for vocals is VallhallaVintageVerb, it sounds absolutely stunning and a steal at $50.

By the way sanderxpander is right about shelves versus pass filters - you definitely want to use high pass and low pass filters for the reverb bus. Shelves are more like the bass/treble controls on a hi-fi - they just boost or attenuate, they don't roll off.

I do the same thing as Sharke with backing vocals. Interesting to hear about VintageVerb, by the way, I do have ValhallaRoom but have switched back to BReverb, it sounds more open to me. Or maybe I just work it better. I use ValhallaRoom for fx. Is VintageVerb very different?