• SONAR
  • Tracking Guitars for HUGE sound (p.2)
2014/07/07 10:34:24
Kylotan
Sanderxpander
Doing that with just two tracks should have the same effect. Anything that you straight up double left and right is basically the same as a louder centered version.

Some people are talking about nudging tracks slightly, which will help create some amount of stereo depth rather than just sounding like a loud centered track. But it will also create some phasing artifacts and probably won't collapse to mono very well. I prefer to record the part twice and pan those. That's how most rock recording artists work.
2014/07/07 10:47:22
AT
Fuzz and other distortion tends to make the sound smaller.  More of the effect and the sound actually gets farther away.  No matter how loud you turn it up.  In order for it too be LOUD and forward the arrangement must be sparse and out of the way frequency wise, which is not usually a rock forté.  More guitars usually doesn't help much.  It can be fun to record and muck with, but is often not worth the effort if you A/B.
 
Punch is easier to achieve on undistorted sound.  Try layering the same part (played a second time) with a cleaner guitar and bring it up underneath the distorted one.  Kinda like parallel compression.  At some point it will kick up punch and definition w/o becoming too obvious. 
 
@
2014/07/07 11:02:45
Anderton
It depends on what kind of huge sound you mean. If you mean a buzzsaw bunch of layers, almost like a pad, that's one kind of huge (e.g., first Sex Pistols album). If you mean in-your-face powerful, that's another kind and tends to be what I prefer but of course, that's totally subjective.
 
I prefer the latter because I believe that fewer parts gives more importance to the parts you have. A friend of mine, Mark Williams, with a strong punk ethic once said "the minute you put on that second guitar part, you're going in the wrong direction." He meant it semi-tongue-in-cheek but I think there's some truth in there.
 
My favorite technique for BIG is multi-band distortion from placing different frequency bands before distortion - one guitar ends up creating four guitar tracks. The lowest filter almost sound like bass. I pull back distortion on the highest band so the notes articulate better. The lower mid pans slight left, and the upper mid, slight right. One multi-band part sounds big and powerful yet never turns into "sludge" because it's only one guitar.
 
Unfortunately I don't have any audio examples of that sound, nor anything where I've mixed it up high - I generally use it as something supportive to really drive a song wih a single guitar. However, I did post a song where you can hear the sound in isolation for a few seconds. Scoot to around 3:50 and at 4:00, you'll hear the sound of multiband guitar by itself. It then spirals into an echo that ends the song so the basic sound doesn't last very long, but it at least gives an idea of what I'm talking about. Mix it higher and double it by playing another part, and you'll have a powerful (not necessarily "big") sound.
 
Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsp5hOxRX1M  I'm on the road this week but if there's interest, I'll record a proper audio example comparing single- and multi-band distortion when I return.
 
 
2014/07/07 11:45:35
jbow
What if you were to get 2 or 3 Gibson Memory cables for your studio use. Then after a client records, you can take the cord and re-record the parts as many ways, in as many rooms, through as many amps or FX as you want to try. You'll have the clean guitar signal preserved to do with as you please.
You would lose nothing and gain a lot as far as options. You could just tell clients that it is an extra backup of the recording.. which it is.
 
J
2014/07/07 11:51:12
jbow
sharke
You may find this a very interesting read (if you can get past the bad language - but hey, that's Slipperman for you!)
 
http://www.badmuckingfast.../sound/slipperman.html


.... but does Slipperman have any opinions, LAFF?
IDK, but after reading a little, I think Slipperman would have been a great drinking buddy back when.
I had seen this a while back, it is a fun read. I decided to look for more re: Slipperman and found this forum http://www.thewombforums.com/index.php?s=a806aeba85dcc4ac53d7191f1fd590e0 I haven't looked at is much but it looks interesting... maybe.
 
J
2014/07/07 12:56:05
Kylotan
jbow
What if you were to get 2 or 3 Gibson Memory cables for your studio use. Then after a client records, you can take the cord and re-record the parts as many ways, in as many rooms, through as many amps or FX as you want to try. You'll have the clean guitar signal preserved to do with as you please.



A more common way to do this is to record the clean guitar signal via a DI box, and then 're-amp' it by playing it back through the amp while recording. Or some people just use software guitar amps and cabs now and 99% of people can't tell the difference. :)
2014/07/07 15:35:25
Jim Roseberry
I'll echo the advice on not playing over-saturated parts.
Especially with lower quality amps...
That can create a "bee hive" effect.
 
If you're looking for a big/fat sound, start with the instrument/amp.
To me, that would mean playing a guitar with humbucker/s... thru an amp that produces a big/bold sound.
Les Paul thru a Marshall is a classic combination.  Classics are classic for a reason (they work).
 
Mic the amp with a mic that'll capture/flatter the perceived size.  Shure SM7B is a great choice for this purpose.
Can take super high SPL, yields more top and bottom than an SM57, and the large diaphragm will help yield a larger sound (which is why the SM7B is popular in radio/broadcasting scenarios)
 
As has been mentioned, double-track the rhythm guitar parts... and pan them left/right.
IMO, There's no substitute for recording a real/tight doubled track.
The subtle differences in timing, pitch, and nuance provide a very sweet "stereo animated" result.
Delaying a copied track can work... but it won't sound as "alive" as a real double.
 
 
2014/07/07 15:57:39
Cactus Music

2014/07/07 16:40:37
Sanderxpander
Kylotan
Sanderxpander
Doing that with just two tracks should have the same effect. Anything that you straight up double left and right is basically the same as a louder centered version.

Some people are talking about nudging tracks slightly, which will help create some amount of stereo depth rather than just sounding like a loud centered track. But it will also create some phasing artifacts and probably won't collapse to mono very well. I prefer to record the part twice and pan those. That's how most rock recording artists work.

I agree but using two identical tracks on both sides and nudging one of each still leaves two identical unnudged tracks left and right. Which is the same as a single centered track. That's why I said doing it with just two tracks (nudging/delaying one) should have the same effect.
2014/07/07 17:19:12
sharke
Cactus Music there's no point in a capo with a power cord  ;)


I can confirm this. In fact they just fall right off.
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