• SONAR
  • Kick and Bass (p.2)
2014/06/29 18:12:06
Anderton
Although I always hesitate to say "fix it in the mix" or "fix it in the master," in most pop recordings there's not a lot going on below 100z. If the kick and bass are in the right proportion to each other, within reason you can using shelving EQ in the mastering process to bring them up or down a little bit.
 
As to basses, I think the Scarbees are excellent. FWIW the Ric is what I used before I made the EB-5 Expansion pack. Between that and still having the EB 5 itself to play, I'm covered (although frankly, I use the Expansion pack more due to its consistency). 
2014/06/29 18:39:41
konradh
One particular song has a simple alternating bass that could be somewhat monotonous if too prominent--but the arrangement is too busy to support a more complex part.  Those types of considerations make things harder.
 
At any rate, I may be over thinking this.  I have created spaces for each element so we'll see how it goes.
 
By the way, I love the Scarbee Rick.  I also recently got the EB-5 and was very impressed in the short time I had to test it out.  I plan to use it on upcoming songs.
 
One moment and I'll post and example.  Uploading now...
2014/06/29 19:29:12
Lynn
Konradh, depending on the song, one way to distinguish bass and bass drum is to pan them apart.  Say, like 11:00 and 1:00 or 10 and 2.  Low frequencies aren't as easy to differentiate their location as mid and high frequencies are and tend to sound centered.  Yet, when spread out a little they become easier to separate by ear, and you don't have to cut quite as much from them.  Plus, by spreading them, you get more clarity from lead vocals and solo instruments.  Try experimenting with with this, and you may be surprised.
2014/06/29 19:32:21
konradh
Here is an example:
 
https://soundcloud.com/bill-hartmann/15-minutes-of-fame-trial-mix
 
The bass part is important and I want it heard.  At the same time, I want a strong kick.  I've been juggling these a bit.  Thoughts on bass and kick levels?
 
(Note that this is an uncompressed 24-bit mix.)
2014/06/29 19:45:03
tlw
An alternative (or complementary to eq alone) approach is to put a compressor on the bass with the compressor  side-chain triggered by a send from the kick.
 
Set the attack so it's slow enough to duck the bass during the kick's impact and initial transients with a pretty fast release. Threshold/ratio need to be set to whatever it takes to get the bass out of the way for the desired time and sound. As with most compression the correct settings will depend on the job in question, the desired effect etc. so it's a case of using your ears.
 
If the kick is busy and the compression is too wallowing or pumping it can be worth loading a drums VSTi and setting up a kick-only MIDI track that triggers the VSTi kick on the main beats you really need the kick to stand out on. Use a pre-fader send on the VSTi audio track to trigger the compressor side-chain instead of the "real" audio bass drum. The VSTi track fader should be set to silent so the VSTi isn't heard in the mix at all, but only controls the compressor on the bass channel. With a bit of tweaking of the MIDI velocities etc. you can get quite fine control over the compressor, and have it duck varying amounts as required even if the "real" drum is a constant volume.
 
Another trick is to use a VSTi to double/layer the kick drum to it covers a wider audio range. Say a low, thuddy or boomy drum layered with a brighter one with noticeablehigher frequency beater click.
2014/06/29 19:47:49
konradh
Did you have an opinion on the kick and bass levels here?
 
https://soundcloud.com/bill-hartmann/15-minutes-of-fame-trial-mix
 
The bass part is important and I want it heard.  At the same time, I want a strong kick.  I've been juggling these a bit.  Thoughts on bass and kick levels?
 
(Note that this is an uncompressed 24-bit mix.)
2014/06/29 19:58:29
Jean
Could do with a bit more on kick to my ears (just listened to through laptop speakers and earbuds though)
2014/06/29 20:15:14
Anderton
Lynn
Konradh, depending on the song, one way to distinguish bass and bass drum is to pan them apart.  Say, like 11:00 and 1:00 or 10 and 2.  Low frequencies aren't as easy to differentiate their location as mid and high frequencies are and tend to sound centered.



The only downside to that approach is it pretty much ends the option to do a release on vinyl. I realize that's not an issue 99.99% of the time, but you never know...
2014/06/29 20:26:22
konradh
Thanks for all the thoughts, guys.

Craig, I appreciate your time and advice.

You know I used not to worry about this so much, but standards are higher.
2014/06/29 21:01:50
jimkleban
Kon.....
 
I listened to your track and it is good (catchy tune).  I understand on what you mean about the bass part... there isn't enough low end in it for me and the picking articulation being constant makes it sound like a keyboard (synth) and not a real bass (just my humble opinion) which has probably unmasked your dilemma.  I think if you try and fatten it up, it will step on the kick but it sounds too thin in your demo.
 
Perhaps it is the sample library... i know when I do bass instruments, I purposely record less attack (pick sound) for the velocity levels (I usually record 8 velocity for each bass note/fret) just so I can play with the attacks of the bass notes (I usually fatten up the meat of the sound) and use velocity to create the groove of the bass.
 
I know, we all have opinions but I understand now after listening to your track (which I really liked).
 
Jim
 
 
PS - reminds me of a retro 60s hit or something (which is right in my sweet spot). 
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