Rexred....
 
I was trying to suggest that you turn up your input signal, louder than you think right up until you get RED led on your interface and then turn it down so it NEVER turns red during the entire track.  The QUAD capture does this with AUTO SENS but you have to perform and record a demo to the setting so it will do this for you... perform it all the way through (at least until to get to the loudest part of the performance) so that auto sense works for you.
 
I used to have an OCTA CAPTURE but sold it (it was good) when the UAD APOLLO became available.  They are both good interfaces but the UAD one allows you to insert UAD plugins with ZERO latency and either record or monitor with them in real time.  I love UAD plugins and this was just the bomb for me as my audio interface.
 
Good luck and it sounds like you are on your way to making music instead of reading about how to use your tools.
 
Jim

Cactus, I agree with you and I can't stand turning up the gain on a track just for volume and getting all the back ground noise louder as well which means more audio editing and less mixing..... as HOT as you can without digital clipping is pretty much what I do.
 
Jim
 
 
 

While I am at it I might like to suggest a couple features I would like Cakewalk programmers to implement.
 
One is in V-vocal. I plan to use V-vocal over Melodyne. I assume Cakewalk switched to Melodyne because it has a few nice features. I would use Melodyne only if i wanted to use those added features. Like converting waves to midi and taking out some unwanted blips in a wave. Also the harmony feature is nice. I sing my own harmonies though.
 
Granted V-vocal, is buggy and is the source of lots of cakewalk crashes. I will be editing in V-vocal and I will click the undo button and sometime lose whole large swaths of editing. This is remedied by saving and lot and by restarting Cakewalk and V-vocal's undo is restored.
 
Sometimes Cakewalk will freeze up and it is directly related to V-vocal.
 
But I find Melodyne is even more buggy and more often causes Cakewalk to freeze up.
 
Besides the editing features for waves in V-vocal are MUCH easier to use and for this reason I will be using V-vocal as long I as I can.
 
Even before Melodyne was integrated into Sonar it was terribly buggy I tried it and did not like it at all then. I was so glad to return to V-vocal. 
 
I think V-vocal is using Melodyne in the background that is okay as long as the editing functionality of V-vocal still works in Sonar.
 
I hope Cakewalk still develops V-Vocal for Sonar and gives users a choice.
 
What would be nice in V-vocal is the smart tool interface.
 
Also the if there were added demarcations for 8th notes and not just quarter notes or maybe even a smart grid in V-vocal. :)
 
Also I have asked about this before. I will mention it again in case not one saw it.
 
It would be nice to be able to add a second ruler up top so I could have two places for markers.
 
I like to put vocals a up top in the various markers so i know where i am in the song.
 
Then I also like to add chords C, Dm, F, etc when I get to recording the guitar/keyboard part.
 
Currently I have to delete my lyrics markers to add chords because they coincide with lyric changes and I cannot add two markers on top of one another and read them very well.
 
So a second ruler just for markers would be nice. (please)
 
One might say why not use lyric view? Well it is way to buggy and takes me HOURS to add lyrics. Often I struggle and struggle with lyric view and finally give up after tons of wasted time. I can add lyrics up top in about 10 minutes.
 
Don't forget a single hyphen in Lyric view or it is all over.
 
Please fix lyric view...
 
Other than those minor issues I REALLY love Cakewalk.

jkleban about the sensor button on my quad capture.
 
I have been singing so long I know exactly which line are the loudest in my song ahead of time so I push the auto sensor button and I belt out the loudest lines directly into the mic windscreen about couple inches away from the mic and I am ready to record the song.
 
Some people will alter the mic volume to accommodate the the various dynamic volume changes in the vocal performance.
 
I find this irreparably alters the tone of the recording and the two parts do not mesh up well. It can be heard in the final mix by even the most unskilled listeners.
 
I have even tried to pull away from the mic a bit for the loud parts but then I run the risk of the mic picking up acoustic bounce back from the room walls, a hall or stairwell.
 
I find it is best to just sing the loud parts up close to the mic and set the mic peak gain with the auto sensor and then raise the quiet parts up in v-vocal after.
 
I will try and get as close as I can to the mic during the quite parts. 
 

The signal to noise ratio of a final recorded track does not have anything to do with the recording level or even your preamps and converters on the way in  (well hope so!)  The amount of noise present in any recording is usualy due the amount of noise present in the source. (I have found a well set hardware downward expander on the way in can clean up noisy guitar sources big time, no work required later to remove any noise)
 
So while the approach of recording just below clipping seems OK,  it would still be too high for a K system refernece I would imagine.  The problem with this approach is it is easy to just get a little loud and hence you will clip because you are simply too close to that point.  Ruin a good take.  Who wants that. (not all clipping is audible too but that is a case of luck more than anything)
 
By setting your average rms levels down at a K reference you have got all the headroom of the chosen K ref up your sleeve.  Even if you were working at K-14 then the chances of you suddenly getting 14 dB louder is actually quite remote and hard.  And at K -20 even more so, near impossible to suddenly get 20 dB louder.  Us drummers can do it though with a very loud snare hit for eaxmple.  But as I have said before with drums it is more about peak metering and just making sure that the loudest things I might do on the kit will not clip.  (this is more like the record hot as close as you can to clip approach and that seems to work for drums. I still make sure that the loudest drum things I might do only get to -6dB on the peak meters)
 
The VU's wont help you a lot with very transient sounds but once you send a group of transient sounds to a buss and put a VU meter on the buss, there will often be enough rms energy to move a VU meter more normally. The more open and ringy the drums are the more the rms VU metering works.

Jeff is right about the K metering system. But is is a system and needs to be calibrated throughout the system. This means not just the levels in Sonar and your gear feeding Sonar but your speakers/monitors too. You will need a Sound Pressure Level Meter as well to calibrate the speakers. 
 
As to recording hot even with 24 bits. I have found that over all I pull down my faders when I mix because otherwise I will clip the master buss. The more tracks you have the more audio energy is sent to the buss. Its cumulative. Normally I start a mixing session by first pulling down all the faders and bring one at a time up to set the overall level and making adjustments as needed.
 
Therefore I am not as anal about high levels as I was when recording at 16 bits. Again Jeff gives the reasons why. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Jeff,
 
I agree with you 100% but the loudest below clipping technique is something that you learn how to do over time.  It is almost like how hard to hit the guitar strings..... I don't push it too hard but I do like it hotter than not.  It works for me and I am sure that your science is more accurate.  I just want to record, keep it simple.
 
Now, if I were a PRO in a PRO studio, I would be the musician and not the engineer.  It is amazing what you can do in the comfort of your own home nowadays, no?
 
Be well,
Jim

Yes I agree Jim in that if you can keep things under control for sure. It certainly works better if it is you doing the playing but as you say when you are recording others especially those you have never met before the K system works well because it is capable of handling a high transient level change without issues.
 
John I find when I do track everything to K system especially on tracks the faders often end up around unity in order to get the perfect mix. There is more adjustment below unity than anywhere else on the fader. That is why it is there.  And yes you are certainly right in that K system goes right through to SPL levels in your control room.  But that is a good thing because once you start working with K system you get very clear about your monitoring levels. I believe your mixes will improve for free by simply being careful on your SPL levels.
 
I hope you guys don't mind me rattling on about gain structure. I am very interested in it and being older I have come from that whole analog world of mixers and tape machines and things. I have just taken that whole concept and transferred it over to the digital medium   (VU meters and all!)   and it seems to work very well.  It is a very important part of the whole production process. If one is careful right back at the tracking stages so much is easier later on.
 
Another good thing to do is to find exactly what rms or K level produces +4 dBu from your interface. That is quite an eye opener.  With cheaper USB powered interfaces often the level at 0 dB FS is only +4 dBu! However on better quality units the opposite is true. eg on a quality RME interface +4 dBu is often realised at much lower levels such as -18 dBu. That means some of the better quality interfaces can produce as much as +22 dBu at 0 dBFS!  (usually because as Mike likes to point out and rightly so because of their well designed power supplies with higher voltage rails etc)  My Yamaha digital mixer puts out +4dBu at K-14 so that is one of the reasons I like to work there.
 
 

And the Yamaha mixer is the reason I can push the volume to a higher level than that of my interface.  
I actually record different ways using both my interface analog inputs and my 01V into SPDIF. 
The 01V has good metering, And it has compression.  
The Scarlett 6i6 has a ring around the level knob which tells you next to nothing. So I agree with Jeff about the K system, in a way I have always done something similar I want a REAL VU meter. As I said, I have never had an over when using my Yamaha as I've used that mixer more than anything else in my studio. 
If I do use the Scarlett I find it best to record on the low side as I cannot trust what I'm seeing. As a result those tracks are defiantly quieter. 
And yes when it then comes down to mixing and hitting the master too hard, certain tracks I want at the top like vocals, So if I was to record my vocals with the scarlett they would not cut through the mix without either pushing the gain or normalizing in wave lab. ( sorry I would never use Sonars normalize tool, long story) 
In the end I use a different approach for each instrument or vocals. But it all starts with a proper set up of the pre amp. It always did and hopefully always will. I think pre amps loose something when not driven properly. After all, it is analog up to a point. 
 
 

RexRed - V-Vocal will not be subject to any more development.
 
It was bundled with Sonar when Cakewalk was owned by Roland, but wasn't updated throughout Roland's ownership.
 
Now Cake is owned by Gibson there clearly will be no further development. This is borne out by a) the inclusion & integration of Melodyne, and b) V-Vocal is no longer included with X3. If you want to use it, as I do, you have to have it installed from an earlier version of Sonar.