I am beginning to record with a songwriting partner and I am thinking about upgrading my audio interface.  Looking for something a little more professional as far as audio quality.  I have read on the net that  Motu 828 mk3,  RME400, MBox Pro, and Roland Octacapture are very good.  I am willing to save up $1,000 for one of these babies.  Which one or ones would be a nice jump from what I have?  I hope this isn't a dumb question......


HP Pavillion Quad Core AMB 2.3 ghz
Windows 7 64-bit home
Sonar 8.5.3
Reason 6.1     
Ableton Live 8.x
V-Studio 100
Yamaha MOX6 Workstation
Novation Remotel SL mkii midi controller
Roland DS50A Powered Monitors
Behringer VX1000 Mic preamp
NT1-a  Studio Mic

V Studio 100 itself is supposed to be decent, but I've never had one myself.  I can't see the Octacapture being any better than the VS-100, but I could be wrong.  I personally would never consider that as an upgrade.

MOTU and RME have excellent converters, hardware and drivers.  I own 2 MOTU Ultralites.  RME is actually a step up from MOTU, IMO.

I don't know anything about Mbox pro and can't recommend it one way or the other.

As Beagle sez, there isn't much difference between cake pres/converters.  There wasn't much between the Vs100 and 700, anyway.  The fader is cool, tho.  And portablity.  But it is good stuff.

If you are looking to spend money to upgrade your sound the best bets (in order) are room treatment, mics, preamps, effects and then convertors.  A thousand dollars won't get you that much of a bump w/ them.  Lynx is a proper "pro" unit and runs about $600 for a stereo channel, but needs a pci slot.  RME is about as good, as is TC.  A used UA is the next step up for a more analog sound, and they go for more like $2000, which will get you the new lynx and plenty of other clean units. 

But the difference isn't going to be as dramatic as the right mic, or a new preamp.  The rode is good, but there is better.  A nice transfomer based preamp can add body to any recording.

If you don't need more inputs getting a mic and preamp combo would do more for your sound quality than replacing perfectly acceptable convertors.

@

AT


As Beagle sez, there isn't much difference between cake pres/converters.  There wasn't much between the Vs100 and 700, anyway.  The fader is cool, tho.  And portablity.  But it is good stuff.

If you are looking to spend money to upgrade your sound the best bets (in order) are room treatment, mics, preamps, effects and then convertors.  But the difference isn't going to be as dramatic as the right mic, or a new preamp.  The rode is good, but there is better.  A nice transfomer based preamp can add body to any recording. 

If you don't need more inputs getting a mic and preamp combo would do more for your sound quality than replacing perfectly acceptable convertors.

I have very little understanding of room treatment but I do have a friend who can help me with that.  He told me it would be better to point my speakers going the long way as opposed to the walls that are closer together.

I will also do more research on preamps and mics.   I will gather some cash within the next 21 days and at least upgrade the mic

and then within the next 45 days have a nicer preamp.  Thanks AT for the insight. 

yes, I agree with all that AT wrote as well.  he mentioned transformer preamps, but also, don't discount tube pres (true tube pres, not the starved plate design).  I prefer them over the transformer designs myself, but the transformer designs are very popular with studios.

yes, you should point your speakers down the long wall, not the short one and you should move them out away from the wall as much as you can - 3' or better is optimal (depending on the size of the room).

there are a lot of threads here dedicated to building and installing bass traps.

Studio,

yea, just clap your hands in your "room"  and listen to how it sounds.  The reverb, however short, any echoes, flutter or not, and any eq bumps will all imprinted upon anything you mic.  It will also be present during mixing, so that any room eq problems "fixed"  during mixing will be doubled.  So if the room has a hump at a certain frequency, you will eq that out twice (once for the recording, the next during mixing).  When you play the recording back on another system in a differnet room, that frequency will be attenuated.  Same for missing frequencies in your room.

If you've ever moved furniture out of a room you've got a good idea of how to fix this problem.  Fire your monitors down the long side of the room since bass signals are long (organ stops give you a good idea of just how long they are - 32' comes from a pipe 32 feet long).  The long side gives your bass more room to expand before it hits a wall and the parts of the sound that aren't absorbed bounce back into the room.

You can spend as much money as you want room treatment, but w/o going hog the best thing to do is put stuff in it that absorbs some and relfects some back so the room doesn't sound dead or empty.  A couch or bed absorbs - esp. low frequencies.  A bookshelf absorbs (the books) and also refelects back sound from the wood.  Wood is good.  Wood gives a nice warm sound to the room.  Wood floors reflect nicely and you can dampen that with rugs as needed.  Some traps in the corner help even out the bass.  A quilt hung behind a player absorbs the reflections from the back wall and the 1st reflections from the front wall which otherwise would have bounced off the back wall.  It is quite cheap to get an acceptable room tone w/o breaking the bank, as long as the room ain't too small or big.  There are tons of threads in the techniques forum about this.  There are plenty of sites, too.

One thing I will add is take your time adding equipment.  The more you understand the limitations of your stuff and the room, the better decisions you can make on spending money wisely.  If money is no concern, just send your surplus to me.  Buy the most expensive equipment you can afford of a piece - it will last (this applies if you are in for the long term).  I've got a yamaha montitoring system from c. 1980.  Still works like a champ, although the last time it was in shop the tech just shook his head and said he couldn't guarentee something wouldn't blow when I got home.  I couldn't replace it for less than $2000 today.  Good buy.  On the other side of the ledger, I bought an Art MP tube preamp for $50 since I needed another preamp for my old interface.  A starved plate design Beagle warns about.  The preamp was fine - just like the interface preamp.  The "tube" effect was less useful, since cranking it up (it is in the output section, I think) got all fizzy.  It sits in a box for live use if needed, now (it does sound good on bass for a fluffy sound).  It worked for me then, but wasn't a good investment, esp. considering my lack of fund back then.

Looking at your gear I would suggest you look at a new mic first.  Different mics have different strengths. Differnet flavors or sound.  For many instruments a stereo set of small diameter condensors is the trick (both of them or just mono).  And you can get a good drum sound just using those (if the room is good!).  A large diameter condesor (like the rode you have) is generally used on vox and solo stuff.  A ribbon mic can substitute, if you want a "vintage sound."  Less highs, more lows and just right for certain things.  Having a mic locker if you are doing a lot of acoustic recording, even a lower budget locker, will speed up your learning curve on what mic works best, but what technique works - mic distance, angle, placement.  One good mic is better (the Bock 195 comes to mind as a great all arounder) but you can get a lot of good milage out of a couple of decent mics.

Finally, mic preamps.  The best thing about a good preamp (other than bragging rights) is the flexiblity in placement they give you.  Most interface preamps top out at 55-60 dB of gain.  But they get ... iffy at the top gain.  And easily overloaded if the performer hits a louder note.  Something like the ISA One or Warm Audio (both around $400) give 80 db of gain.  Which means you can back off the instrument to find the right place for the mic, getting a nice blend of the instrument and the air around it in the room (that magic word again!).  And they won't crap out when the singer hits that louder note or phrase that is right in the middle of his range.  Once you start mixing, the air helps separate the instrument in the soundfield from everything else.  Suddenly your mix falls into place easy w/o as much work and still sounds better.  This is all rather sublte, but real and cumulative.  5% here, 10% there but suddenly your song sounds like a professional recording, not a bunch of sounds w/ a mic randomly thrown in front of stuff.  Good tools help that process and will help get you there quicker.

have fun and choose wisely.  You'll find a lot of good help on this site, and that everyone has an opinion.  Most are valid.  Take what you can and develop your own opinions about what works for you.

@

Ps - I don't know why the forum software is using the "quote" style on this post.

Actually, it is going to take a little while to feel out the room to get a sweet spot so thanks for the information.  Much needed.  I just want to make a correction on the mic preamp .  It's a Berhinger Ultragain T1953.  It was an affordable option at the time I purchased it and I got some decent vocal recordings with it.  I, however, do feel there is a need to upgrade them and I will update this post when I have accomplished the room and the purchase of more professional equipment (better mic and mic pre)   .  Also, I basically just record bass, lead guitars and vocals in my studio.  I don't record drums.  I basically track those myself.  I am recording my songwriting partner's group "Trespassion" and  I will put the first song on sound cloud as soon as we are done.  Probably next week.  Thanks again for Beagle's and AT's Responses. Not something to just read once and then be done.  This is going to take a minute or two for me.   These responses are definitely responses that are perfect for a Studio4dummy like me!

I would certainly recommend upgrading the Behringer Ultragain.  it's not horrible, but it's not great, either.

Beagle


I would certainly recommend upgrading the Behringer Ultragain.  it's not horrible, but it's not great, either.

Thanks !

Okay.  I have done a little research on mics and I must say I do like the Rode Nt1a;  having said that, I have decided to upgrade to the Rode NTK ($500+ new--  about $350 used) since I am familiar with Rode.  It is about twice as much (new) as the Nt1a, but it has been compared to mics that are twice as much. It supposedly handles male vocals quite well to give that nice rich tone.  And you can also switch patterns to omni or bi-directional. So I will be moving furniture and equipment in the studio this weekend and hopefully I will have the mic.  Then I will be working on the mic pre.  Just putting it out there, the Warm WA12 is something I've been doing a little research on and that looks to be an decent upgrade from what I have.