• SONAR
  • Latency question about X3 Studio; how to reduce latency if needed
2014/06/25 11:28:28
Chevy
System:  Sonar X3 Studio, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 interface, ASIO drivers, Win 7 Pro 64, Quad core 3.1 ghz cpu. Newbie here.... Just got everything running, upgrading from Producer 8.3, no experience yet with any recording projects on X3.  
Soooo...  Not sure what to make of this yet...   in Producer 8.3,  I could go and adjust the setting for latency; there was a + or - variable setting in the global or audio options area; you could push or pull the preset latency by any amount you wanted. When I did a hardwire loop on the 2i2 interface to measure the latency, I could visibly see latency changes and could adjust it all I wanted, the track being recorded moved with the adjustments.  I could line up the source track and resulting recorded track really well. 
But...  with X3, all I get is an adjustment for buffer size.  It is currently preset for 10mS.  The help file says this "should" be fine for most applications...  but doesn't leave me feeling very confident. Again did the hardwire loop at the 2i2 and tried to adjust the buffer size to see what would happen, and it didn't seem to change anything. Went from 10mS all the way to 2 mSec, and nada on the result.  The source waveform and resultant recorded waveform seem to be about 7 samples apart, on average, in the track view, if I'm looking at the samples/time grid correctly.  (maybe 1 mSec?) I guess that's great,  but the lack of adjustment that was previously there seems to be kinda odd.
Any comments or ideas ?   Thanks much !
2014/06/25 11:34:08
Anderton
Click on ASIO Panel to bring up the Focusrite applet. An interface's applet is the primary place to adjust latency with ASIO. 
2014/06/25 11:48:14
Chevy
Nope... I get the exact same adjustment options and range on the ASIO panel...    buffer length 1 to 10 mSec.  Using the same 2i2 interface.
2014/06/25 11:51:27
Anderton
Were you using the Focusrite interface with 8.3?
 
Also you mentioned "buffer length 1 to mSec." What is the maximum length?
2014/06/25 12:06:04
Cactus Music
Your worrying about something you don't need to worry about. 
Leave it at what ever the default was as Sonar automatically adjusts to compensate for the latency offset while recording. You mess with that and you will have a problem. Sonar and the Focusrite driver will sort it out. 
The 2i2 doesn't have the Mix Control so I'm not sure what yours looks like , but for me the default is for 9ms which works perfectly for everything I do, tracking and mixing. 
Focusrite uses a different reporting system and it is determined that the lowest number 2ms is like the same as the 032ms buffer that most drivers report. 9ms is more like 256ms. but this is a guess. 
see this thread for more: 
http://www.gearslutz.com/...ance-data-base-20.html
 
I would only move it down to 2ms if using Guitar Rig to get rid of the small delay you'll hear at 9ms. But then I will be on the edge of an unstable audio engine. It will drop out. 
 
A better computer than mine probably would be fine. But Focusrite recommends keeping it a little higher than the bottom for tracking smoothly. The Scarlett series does not have great drivers for super low latency performance. They are not even on the list I linked along with a lot of under $300 USB interfaces. This is nothing to worry about unless your a Guitar Rig type user. And even then you might not notice the delay if you have a super computer to make up for it. 
Anyhow, stop worrying and carry on. There will be no timing offset unless you put it there manually. 
 
 
2014/06/25 12:14:35
scook
Chevy
 in Producer 8.3,  I could go and adjust the setting for latency; there was a + or - variable setting in the global or audio options area;

It is called "Manual Offset" at the bottom of Preferences > Audio > Sync and Caching
Everyone should take a look at it and run the loopback test to correct the reported latency settings.
2014/06/26 11:40:44
Chevy
Hey guys,  thanks much for the feedback.  I just didn't want to start on some new recordings, get some done, and then discover a latency issue later on.  
But I still do have 2 questions:  
1) Why would Cakewalk do away with something that seems to be such a great feature ?  (the ability/tool to have complete over-ride control over latency if you chose to).
2) This is just out of curiosity: Has anyone else done the hardwire loop test, and do my results seem like I'm reading the time/samples grids correctly ? approx. 7 samples or about 1 mSec of latency.  (if you expand the track waveform enough, it appears you can pretty much see each sample increment on the screen, and there is a counter that shows the sample position numbers as you move the cursor thru. The mSec show up on the other time grid.)
Thanks kindly,
2014/06/26 12:17:26
CJaysMusic
1) Why would Cakewalk do away with something that seems to be such a great feature ? (the ability/tool to have complete over-ride control over latency if you chose to).

Cakewalk and sonar have nothing to do with your latency that you experience.
 
 
Latency is affected by:
  1. Your PC's MOBO
  2. Your PC specs
  3. Your sound card's driver
  4. The sound card drivers mode
  5. The settings for the driver mode
  6. How well the drivers are written by the sound card's manufacturer 
  7. Your signal chain
  8. What you put in your signal chain
So its up to you how you deal with latency, not Cakewalk or Sonar
 
CJ
2014/06/26 12:24:01
scook
1) the feature exists, see #6 above
2) AFAIK, most interfaces benefit from a little manual offset to the reported latency (one reason the manual offset is there).
2014/06/26 22:47:57
Chevy
CJaysMusic
1) Why would Cakewalk do away with something that seems to be such a great feature ? (the ability/tool to have complete over-ride control over latency if you chose to).

Cakewalk and sonar have nothing to do with your latency that you experience.
 
 
Latency is affected by:
  1. Your PC's MOBO
  2. Your PC specs
  3. Your sound card's driver
  4. The sound card drivers mode
  5. The settings for the driver mode
  6. How well the drivers are written by the sound card's manufacturer 
  7. Your signal chain
  8. What you put in your signal chain
So its up to you how you deal with latency, not Cakewalk or Sonar
 
CJ


Ummm...  I think you totally missed the point.   It's pretty obvious that there are multiple reasons for latency.  But Sonar Producer 8.3 (my previous version) had the ability to manually compensate for, as far as I can tell..., pretty much anything.  
 
i.e.  Sonar X3 still has the ability to change buffer length.  Well...   you'd likely change buffer length due to some reason outside of Sonar as well, right ?  
 
I ain't no recording genius, but seems to me if you've got a great feature, why get rid of it ? 
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