• SONAR
  • Sonitus EQ peak dB boost. Why? (p.2)
2014/06/24 15:01:31
robbyk
scook
 Normally this bump would not be an issue because the filtering would happen earlier in the signal processing when the incoming signal was not so hot. EQ is usually not at the end of the mastering chain where a signal is so high.


But it is first, not last.
 
Here's the process:
 
1. I receive the file from client (stereo, 44.1 / 48000)
2. In all cases, he has already roughly edited his audio (field recordings of farmers, teachers, etc) and they are given to me with a peak of 0.0 dB
3. He wants me to take out wind noises, etc and "enhance" the audio.
4. The first thing I do is clean up the file with SoundSoap Pro (32 bit Sonar) and bounce to a new track.
5. At this point, the new audio peaks at 0.0 dB
6. I put on Sonitus EQ with a HP and a LP. My file now peaks at + 2.0 (or some increase) dB as shown in the screenshot.
 
So this is first in the chain, not last.
 
7. I reduce the output appropriately in sonitus EQ and possibly master gain and export as mono.
8. I bring the new file back into 64 bit sonar (with a peak  ~ -1 to -3 dB) and enhance, either with Alloy 2 or Ozone 5 as needed.
9. I return the mono file (cleaned up and "enhanced") to client with a peak of -0.3 but with the RMS level increased (ie it sounds louder).
 
The client then edits his audio as needed and converts to mp3 for online distribution.
 
So my Q is still, why a 2dB gain at the onset?
 
I also suspected a bump, as Scook suggested, but it is certainly not evident in the graph. This has happened repeatedly and I have done 6 audio files for the client to date. Each from a different speaker and locale.
 
I'm still happy its not my brain and lack of understanding. After 7 full weeks of radiation in the head last year, I have some "issues" like forgetfulness and calling dumplings "bisquits". :)
2014/06/24 15:02:49
robbyk
Grem
Change the slope if the hp/lp filters and see if that changes the level back close to 0db. The steeper the slope of the filter, the more the resonant spikes.



That sounds interesting, they are steep slopes. What is a "resonant spike?"
2014/06/24 15:17:34
scook
The client has already started the finalizing process by normalizing the file or recorded at too high a level. There is no headroom to do anything with the file. If the client will not send the raw file or reduce the recording level your options are limited.
 
 
2014/06/24 16:25:45
robbyk
scook
The client has already started the finalizing process by normalizing the file or recorded at too high a level. There is no headroom to do anything with the file. If the client will not send the raw file or reduce the recording level your options are limited.
 


Indeed and agreed!
 
But you cain't always git what you wahnt :)
 
He just sent me a new file this morning and I will meet him on Thursday for the first time and see if I can better understand his process. Sometimes we got the play the hand that is dealt.
2014/06/24 19:25:41
Cactus Music
Agreed, they should send you an edited file, but it is not their part in the process to normalize to 0. That's a bad idea at any point. Tell them they can normalize but say to around -4 or something that leaves room to work.
 
My procedure for files I record live to my Tascam DR 40 involve normalizing in the first step so I can see and hear better if the file was recorded real low. This is pretty common as you certainly are better off recording low than to take a chance on an over. But I Normalize to -4 in that first stage I would not recommend going to 0 at that stage of editing.  
2014/06/24 22:24:21
robbyk
Cactus Music
 
My procedure for files I record live to my Tascam DR 40 involve normalizing in the first step so I can see and hear better if the file was recorded real low. This is pretty common as you certainly are better off recording low than to take a chance on an over. But I Normalize to -4 in that first stage I would not recommend going to 0 at that stage of editing.  




Excellent advice to carry with me to the client! Thanks!
2014/06/24 23:44:04
Anderton
With lowpass and highpass filters, Q sets the amount of resonance. Try this:
 
  1. Right-click on the Sonitus graph and select range +/-5dB.
  2. Enable the lowpass filter and set the frequency around 3kHz or so.
  3. Set the Q to 2. You'll see the bump.
2014/06/25 08:57:42
bitflipper
When you meet with the client, ask him to actually show you how he edits the files. If you just ask for a description, he may leave something out that he doesn't think is relevant.
 
My guess is he's using the normalize function in his audio editor, thinking he's doing you a favor. If so, explain to him that you must leave some headroom any time a file is going to have further processing done to it.
 
Don't worry about hurting his feelings by criticizing his methods. Making him aware of that will greatly help your future collaborations, and make you look like a technical guru worthy of the fees he pays you.
2014/06/25 10:06:52
robbyk
Anderton
With lowpass and highpass filters, Q sets the amount of resonance. Try this:
 
  1. Right-click on the Sonitus graph and select range +/-5dB.
  2. Enable the lowpass filter and set the frequency around 3kHz or so.
  3. Set the Q to 2. You'll see the bump.


Thanks for the excellent advice and explanation on resonance, I'll give that a try today on the new file; I suspect that will shed some light on this :)
2014/06/25 10:14:21
robbyk
bitflipper
 
My guess is he's using the normalize function in his audio editor, thinking he's doing you a favor. If so, explain to him that you must leave some headroom any time a file is going to have further processing done to it.




I think the issue is he does so much work of this type and most of it is perfectly fine for his purposes. It's only after a fashion that he realizes some of the files are not up to snuff. He is 69 (slightly older than me) and loathe to go back and redo things. That being said he is a very nice gentleman and founder of our local baseball team and top brewery!
 
But your kind suggestions are well taken. I'm looking forward to seeing him on Thursday. If a grant he is working on comes through, there will be much for me to do :)
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