• SONAR
  • [Solved] Need help reproducing a bug (Kontakt crashing in X3e Producer)
2014/06/21 01:09:34
Silhan
I'm having a problem with X3e Producer and I'd appreciate it if someone could try to reproduce it for me on their system. When I try to load one of the large TVEC instruments from Kirk Hunter Diamond Orchestra into Kontakt from within Sonar X3e Producer, Kontakt crashes maybe half of the time. But if I do the same thing using Sonar X2a Producer instead, everything is fine. Here are the details of my setup:
  • Sonar X3e Producer
  • Kontakt 5.3.1
  • Kirk Hunter Diamond Orchestra
    • TVEC 3.1, "Diamond Trumpets 6,4,2,1 Players" (but it also happens with other patches as well)
  • Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 with 2.5.1 driver
  • Windows 8.1
2014/06/21 02:08:42
scook
It might be helpful to provide more details about the PC such as RAM and HD info, SONAR config such as recording mode, sample rate and bit depth, also details about the crash itself. A crash usually throws up a dialog with information about the crash. The Windows Event log also may contain information which may be useful. Is this track the only one in the project?
2014/06/21 11:12:11
Silhan
Kontakt displays a dialog box when it crashes saying that it created a log file. Unfortunatley the log file seems to be written in binary, so it's not much help to me. I've already submitted the log file to NI support, but I haven't heard back from them yet.
 
My computer is a Toshiba Satellite laptop with a Core i7 CPU and 8 GB RAM. My Kontakt samples are stored an an external 1 TB hard drive connected via USB 3. Everything is 64-bit. The steps I take to reproduce the bug are:
  1. Open Sonar X3e Producer with an empty project
  2. Drag Kontakt from the browser onto the track view to create a new simple instrument track.
  3. Load a large instrument (over 1 GB) into Kontakt. Lately that has been the KHS TVEC patches for me, but I've also experienced it with patches from other companies, like Rust 3 from Soundiron.
  4. As Kontakt tries to load the instrument, it will often crash before it has a chance to display the instrument in the GUI.
I don't think it has anything to do with recording mode, sample rate, or bit depth. Today I plan on trying to isolate the problem by varying different parameters to see if they have any effect.
2014/06/21 11:25:08
Silhan
The error text reads:

Kontakt 5 has encountered a major problem and has been terminated.
 
A crashlog file has been created at the following location:
 
[path of NICRASH log file]
 
Please provide this crashlog to the Native Instruments technical support.
 
Thank you for your cooperation!

 
2014/06/21 11:29:46
lawp
Is it a multi out instance of kontakt you're dragging? Or a multi out instrument you're loading?
2014/06/21 11:31:32
robert_e_bone
What happens if you load Kontakt into the synth rack, and select the insertion of regular audio tracks, rather than a simple instrument track?
 
I would just like to see a test of the load of that instrument into an instance of Kontakt, in and of itself.
 
Thanks, 
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/06/21 11:35:45
lawp
Prime suspect - simple instrument track
2014/06/21 11:48:32
Silhan
lawp
Is it a multi out instance of kontakt you're dragging? Or a multi out instrument you're loading?

It happens with the 8 out, 16 out and 64 out instances of Kontakt. The instrument is not multi-out.
2014/06/21 12:10:54
Anderton
Dooes Windows load any background programs? There's a common misconception that streaming from disk means you don't need much RAM, but Kontakt stores a significant amount of a note's attack so it can play back instantly while the hard drive seeks. If there are lots of individual samples for articulations and such, the needed memory can add up fast.
 
Your saying that it crashes about half the time may mean there is something about your system that's "on the edge." I don't know if X3e loads more "stuff" into memory than X2; if you ran programs prior to opening Sonar, sometimes they don't release memory fully. If Sonar had a bug caused by loading large files, it would seem that it would happen every time. If Sonar can load files smaller than a certain size without errors, it would seem whatever the problem is relates to file size.
 
When I bought a new music computer several years back, I mentioned that I use Kontakt a lot and the system integrator (PC Audio Labs) highly recommended 32GB of RAM. At the time I thought that was overkill, but it turned out they were right. I never have crashes any more from running out of memory.
 
Finally, I've found NI's support very helpful in the past although it can take them a few days to respond. They really depend on lots of data, so for example try running Kontakt in standalone mode to see if that makes a difference. If it's fine, then open some more instruments. If you reach a point where you try to load so much stuff Kontakt crashes and you get the same error message, that would likely indicate a need for more memory. My understanding is that Windows isn't all that efficient in terms of managing memory, but that may just be something I recall from conversations with Mac-centric friends 
2014/06/21 12:11:47
Silhan
robert_e_bone
What happens if you load Kontakt into the synth rack, and select the insertion of regular audio tracks, rather than a simple instrument track?

lawp
Prime suspect - simple instrument track

I tried switching from a simple instrument track to a MIDI track with the first stereo output on a separate audio track, but unfortunately the crashes still happen.
 
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