Hi All,
Seems like I'm overlooking something simple here but I'm having issues automating individual instrument volumes in Kontakt using the automation lanes for respective instruments in Sonar.
 
The instruments in Kontakt are all on their own midi channel and all output to the same stereo output pair. Currently, any automation affects all Kontakt instruments identically regardless of midi channel. What throws me though is, I can move the midi fader for the Sonar channel representing a Kontakt instrument and watch the Kontakt instrument level fader move in sync. ???
 
I read something somewhere that showed inserting a midi and audio channel manually for each Kontakt instrument but that seems like a lot of unneeded midi tracks?
 
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Mike

I insert either 1 or 2 audio tracks for each instrument loaded into a given instance of Kontakt (either a single stereo audio track or a left and a right audio track), AND I insert a separate midi track for each loaded instrument, as well.
 
This allows complete control, at the level of each instrument, rather than having to fish each instrument's midi data out of some single midi track that has a bunch of data from multiple midi channels.
 
I don't consider that 'unneeded', but rather quite handy and powerful, and much simpler.
 
By using one of the 'batch functions' in the 'Output Section' of the Kontakt 5 UI, I get Kontakt to delete whatever audio outputs are there by default, and it will then automatically insert a stereo pair of output channels for each loaded instrument.  
 
By doing the above, I can then route each loaded instrument to its own stereo pair of audio tracks in Sonar, which then gives me COMPLETE audio processing control of each instrument.
 
By you doing it the way you are currently doing it, you have no way to effectively control the audio of any individual instrument in Kontakt, other than to do something within the small number of controls within each loaded instrument within the Kontakt UI.  You are missing out on a GIANT bunch of powerful functionality to shape and control audio coming from Kontakt.
 
Think about it for a moment.  By keeping both audio and midi completely separate for each instrument for a given instance of Kontakt, I can apply different levels of whatever effect I wish to apply to any particular instrument, and can even split it further down to applying different levels to either left or right sides of the stereo image, if desired, or could apply only to one side or the other.
 
It also lets me automate individual instrument's audio, because everything is independent, rather than all mashed together, such as how your approach has things set up.
 
I think you would be MUCH MUCH happier with the amount of functionality splitting things up gives you, not to mention how much easier it sounds, and most importantly, how much BETTER it will all sound.
 
Bob Bone
 
 

Thanks for the reply, Bob. I see your points. I'll try it your way for awhile and see how it works out!

Something else to consider - I set up a track template for Kontakt 5, with 6 of my most used instruments loaded up, with all of the associated audio and midi tracks already set up in a track folder, with all of the routing assignments made.
 
This makes it SUPER easy to bring in a bunch of often-used instruments.
 
Track templates AND project templates are both quite handy, if you haven't tried them out yet.
 
Bob Bone
 

robert_e_bone
I insert either 1 or 2 audio tracks for each instrument loaded into a given instance of Kontakt (either a single stereo audio track or a left and a right audio track), AND I insert a separate midi track for each loaded instrument, as well.
 

I have a question Bob. Of course I have a separate MIDI track for each instrument within Kontakt 5, but I don't do any sort of audio track routing in the beginning. My process is to record my instrument parts into the MIDI track, then when I'm ready to mix, I bounce each individual MIDI track to its own audio track. From there I will assign the tracks to either individual busses or group busses. 

Are you somehow utilizing the audio tracks during the MIDI recording stage that I'm not seeing? Or are you simply pre-loading the associated audio tracks for the MIDI instruments for when you eventually bounce them? 

Thanks for your help :)

That's not a bad idea - but I don't think it saves much to wait until mixing to have the additional audio tracks, because the lion's share of the work is in the conversions to audio, so you might as well have the multiple audio tracks present even during the recording process.
 
In other words, Sonar has to convert each instrument's midi-triggered sounds to analog, and that's what chews up the resources the most, even if it all gets routed to a single stereo pair of audio outputs.
 
By approaching it as I do, where the multiple audio outputs are set up right in the beginning of the recording process, I immediately get the benefits of controlling individual volumes, and even addition of low-resource effects, even while recording those instrument's midi tracks.
 
Sonar does not have to do much to place each instrument's audio data on the additional audio tracks that I have set up.
 
I think the above is a lot more flexible, powerful, and easier to work with.
 
Give it a shot and come to your own conclusions.
 
Please note that I have a computer with 32 GB of memory and multiple SATA III disk drives, with things split between the drives, so I never have to freeze during the tracking/recording process, but at the same time, as I noted above, I don't think Sonar has to work particularly harder to output the already converted data to multiple audio tracks, versus only 2 audio tracks, because the data being converted is the same either way.
 
I hope I have explained my approach well enough for you - again, please try it out and post back.
 
Perhaps make a complete copy of a project file within the same project folder, where the original project file has it set up your way, with all instruments from a Kontakt instance routed to a single stereo pair of audio outputs, and the copy of the project file set up to split all of the loaded instruments in the Kontakt instance into a stereo pair of audio outputs and then routed to corresponding multiple stereo output audio tracks.
 
I believe you will not see much difference in the work Sonar has to do for either of the two approaches.
 
Edited to add something - I also set up the buses and route the audio tracks as needed when I initially set it all up, so that I get quick access to volume for all drums, or even of a bus for just the toms within the overall drums bus, and similar setups for string sections, and horn sections, etc.
 
I have several sets of Track Templates set up for specific groups of Kontakt instruments, with all of the audio tracks and the outputs section routing assignments in Kontakt all set up, all going into a track folder, as well as the associated buses and the track routing assignments to those too, so it becomes SUPER quick and easy to add a strings section, or a brass section, or a general group of instruments.
 
I do this too for Battery, where I build custom kits for different kinds of standard kit sounds, and for additional percussive kit pieces (timpani, gong, hand clap, etc).  Each kit piece gets routed to its own stereo output channels in Battery, and I also set up the associated audio tracks, buses, routing assignments, as well as a general relative volume starting point.  All of this gets saved into a Track Template for that particular kit, giving me again SUPER quick and easy inclusion of any one of a number of REALLY nice drum kits, with all of the drum audio tracks and a single midi track set up in a track folder for Drums.  (I sometimes include an additional midi track for the kit, to give me the ability to set up a more complex click track for a given section of a song, without disturbing the main drum midi track.
 
The combination of multi-timbral synths, such as Kontakt 5 and Battery 3 (or 4), their ability to route output to multiple audio channels, which can then be picked up by multiple audio tracks, placed into track folders, assigned to multiple buses (main drums, toms, cymbals, etc), all into Track Templates, is AMAZINGLY powerful in Sonar, and something I rely on heavily.
 
Track Templates are one of my FAVORITE features of Sonar, and as noted above, they can accomplish GIANT bunches of tasks with the simple inclusion of them into a project, with only a need to think through what you want a given track template to do, and then set it up into a single or into multiple track templates, as needed, for recall at any time in the future.  GIANT time saver that gives consistent results.
 
Bob Bone
 

Thanks for all of you insight, Bob!
 
I'm reassigning some tracks/instruments I have in an existing project and I'm running into something odd and feel like I'm missing something. I have a Kontakt instance with 13 instruments in it and the Sonar tracks were all just Simple Instrument tracks but I needed more individual volume control so created separate outputs for them in Kontakt and started splitting the Simple Instrument Sonar tracks. First thing that struck me as odd was that when I chose to split a track it would only create a midi track and no audio track.
 
So, here's one example. One Kontakt instrument is set to output on Kt. Unassigned [1] / [2]: Stereo, plugin output #11 and #12. I added an audio track and set it's input to Kt. Unassigned [1] / [2]: Stereo and it's output to Master.
 
I see the audio at the appropriate Kontakt output channel and I feel that I would expect to see audio at the Sonar audio track it's assigned to but i see nor hear anything. I must be doing something wrong. :)
 
Also, the odd thing is that out of all the instruments in this Kontakt instance, there is one that is outputting to the Master bus even though it is assigned in the same way that the rest of the instruments are that are NOT outputting audio as they should.
 
Any thoughts?

There is some kind of flaky thing with Kontakt 5, where if you load more than something like 6 instruments into a single instance of it, it causes weird naming problems in the audio tracks listed when you are trying to assign the input of an audio track - for the instruments beyond the 5th or 6th one.
 
The above is hard to explain - but pretty much I always limit the number of instruments loaded into a single instance of Kontakt 5 in Sonar to a max of 6, and just create one or more instances of Kontakt if there are additional instruments to load.
 
(someone posted some kind of workaround or such to the above problem, but I never got it worked out, so I just always limit each Kontakt 5 instance in Sonar to 6 instruments).
 
I also never use Simple Instrument Tracks, so I cannot guide you on what happens when you try to split them, or what to do if there are issues in doing that.  Others in the forum should hopefully pop in and help answer that part of things here.  (hint hint - calling forum folks) :)
 
So, some of the naming of Kontakt audio outputs might show up goofy in the list that displays when you click on an audio track 'Input' and then on Kontakt, until you change how many instruments are loaded, per my above comments.
 
And, something else I do in Kontakt, when I load up the desired instruments for a given instance, is that I use one of the Output Section's Batch Functions to delete any existing output channels, and then it creates and assigns a new stereo output channel for each loaded instrument.  Following that, I manually rename each of the newly-created output channels to read better.
 
What happens is that when Kontakt creates those new stereo audio output channels, it defaults the name of each one to be as much of the actual instrument name that is assigned to it.  So, audio output channel 1 might have an organ preset loaded, and may have a name like 'Je T'aime', which happens to be the name of the particular organ preset that is loaded.  That to me is dumb, so I always rename each of those output channel names to more generic things, like 'Organ', 'Piano', 'Strings', 'Brass', etc.
 
That makes it much easier to read, and easier to pick the correct audio channels for the audio tracks.
 
I am also unsure of your last point about the Master bus - please adjust the loaded instruments per my above comments, creating a 2nd or even a 3rd instance of Kontakt as needed, AND then run that batch function in the Output Section Batch Functions that says "Clear output section and create one individual channel for each loaded instrument', AND then rename each of the created output channels to be more readable.
 
Following the above, please then go through the process of assigning audio track inputs to the newly-created output channels in the appropriate Kontakt instance, and then post back with your results.
 
I am SOOOOO sorry if I have confused you with any of the above, or from any earlier comments, and I am also quite sorry you have this current set of troubles with the whole thing.
 
I DO promise you that once you get things straightened out, moving forward things should be MUCH easier and faster to set up, so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE hang in there.
 
Bob Bone
 

Ok, just finding time to get back to fooling with this!
 
No worries, Bob. No confusion on what you were saying, just what my system is doing. :-)
 
So, my first question will be, what is the easiest way to move some instruments out of the "over-crowded" Kontakt instance and into another so I can get it ldown to 5 or 6 per instance?
 
Mike

Well, I suppose there are at least a couple of ways of doing this.
 
The way I would approach this is:
 
1.  Figure out which instruments you want to remove from the 1st Kontakt instance - to move them to a 2nd instance.
 
2.  Insert another instance of Kontakt into the synth rack.  Do NOT have any tracks (audio or midi) inserted by the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog, since they already exist.  (just remove the checks for any of those boxes in the insert options).
 
3.  OK, load up the 2nd instance of Kontakt with the instruments you want to move over from the original instance.  Please note that Kontakt will start assigning midi channels over again from 1.  That's not a problem, it just means you will need to make midi track adjustments to accommodate that - a little later.
 
4.  I suggest you now run the batch function to clear the output section for the new instance, and have it create a stereo output channel for each loaded instrument, then rename each output channel to something easy to read.
 
5.  Start altering audio and midi routing assignments from the existing tracks for the instruments you have 'moved', picking up the appropriate audio inputs from the corresponding 2nd instance outputs, and change the midi output assignments for the 'moved' instruments to point to the 2nd instance.
 
6.  Now, you need to make the midi output midi channels on the changed midi tracks match their new midi channel assignments from the 2nd instance.  This option is right under the FX bin of a given midi track.  So, if piano was 'moved', and it used to be channel 8, and is now channel 1, change this parameter to 1.  The reason you wait until now to do this is because you will have wanted to first alter the midi output from the 1st Kontakt instance to the 2nd Kontakt instance, so that the displayed midi channels are the correct ones.
 
7.  OK, so now that all of the tracks are properly assigned to the 2nd instance, go back into the 1st instance and delete each of the 'moved' instruments.  If the check box is there to delete any associated tracks, make sure it is NOT checked.
 
Unless I need more coffee, that should do it.
 
Bob Bone