Well...realizing my response tended to get off track, never the less...I saw it as an opportunity to express my opinion.  I apologize for that tangent.

Yes...I've used some of those *expensive* plugs and feel the ones in X3 can compete on an equal field.  I think there is some marketing strategy involved, past reputations of those 3rd party plugs that still propel them along... and *famous* users.  Not that they don't deserve their reps...but Cake isn't necessarily known for being a plugin manufacturer, as their first goal, and hence they don't get the credit.  Of course my opinion.

Teal
 
I was a SONAR user of old, I was using CWPA6 through SONAR XL, and honestly one of the big reasons I switched to the 1K Samplitude back in 2004/5 was that the bundled plug-ins were pretty excellent and comprehensive.  Back then good plug ins were not common except Waves or UAD1 which were both very expensive.  Everything I did just sounded better in Samplitude. In the 32-bit days it was absolutely the best sounding mix engine, not sure thats true today.

 
Samplitude was ahead of the curve in terms of broadcast-friendly editing, in-DAW mastering, CD burning, and object-oriented editing. i think they're still ahead of the game in object-oriented editing and if you get Sequoia, it has four-point editing for broadcast. 
 

So my question is not about not knowing how to use tools or wanting better than stock plug ins, its about if the stock plugs in Sonar X3 are placeholders or are they pro?  Keep in mind one of the reasons I left the platform was the realization that the plugs were poor quality.  Native plugs have come a long way, just want to know if those advances made their wy into X3.

Anything that's designed for the ProChannel holds its own against similar plugs. The Blue Tubes plugs have more of a "vintage" vibe. The only place I find Sonar lacking is in a good multiband limiter/maximizer. IMHO you still need Waves L1-type plugs for that regardless of which DAW you use. There are also no "restoration" plug ins, like de-cracklers, peak restorers, etc. You still need iZotope, WaveLab, Sound Forge, Audition, etc. if you need to do salvage jobs.

The only thing typically dated about plugins is look and efficiency to newer models. From a functionality standard, a "pro" audio engineer could mix and master witht them alone. No, it would not be ideal but far from impossible.

I think I'm going to take a pass on Teal's posts for awhile. We seem to get these kind of poster's in oddly timed waves with the exact same pattern:

1) Make several topics..all of which either contain loaded questions or accusations of bugs.

2) Claims they love sonar or older version, yet mostly praise other products.

3) They seem vastly different from most Sonar newbie issues and lean more towards creating a convo broader than the original topic than solving a particular issue.

I have no way of knowing whether we are bein trolled or if this is just this guy's personality but since I'm not likely to offer anything not already going to be said in some form, I will take a pass.

Samplitude has had excellent multiband mastering compression, the AM-suite analog modeling plugs, and Pro-X has the restoration suite.  Samp is still probably in the lead in bundled FX, but equivalents are so inexpensive these days, no one is going to switch to Samp just for the plugs.

dubdisciple
 
I have no way of knowing whether we are bein trolled or if this is just this guy's personality but since I'm not likely to offer anything not already going to be said in some form, I will take a pass.

 
Not being trolled, just dont have time for this kind of posturing and game playing.  Just have questions that need answers, and I got them fast.  Words not an indication of personality, just belief in relative unimportance of filtering and choosing words carefully, dont care about grammar or spelling police, etc etc.  Just get in and out fast.

Teal

dubdisciple

I have no way of knowing whether we are bein trolled or if this is just this guy's personality but since I'm not likely to offer anything not already going to be said in some form, I will take a pass.

 
Not being trolled, just dont have time for this kind of posturing and game playing.  Just have questions that need answers, and I got them fast.  Words not an indication of personality, just belief in relative unimportance of filtering and choosing words carefully, dont care about grammar or spelling police, etc etc.  Just get in and out fast.

I like to help polite people. People that show some gratitude for trying to help. I also think when asking for things the least one can do is try to be easily understood. That means doing ones best in try to spell correctly and using proper punctuation. It all shows a bit of respect to those trying to be of service.
 
Getting in and out fast may suit you but is it really the best way to get good answers to your questions?
 
People will go to a lot of effort to help when they think it is being appreciated.  
 
 
 

One thing I would hope for in X4 is that they dump plugins that aren't VST based. If we are to keep clinging onto them then please give us VST versions.

BTW The VST plugins with Sonar are great. Just getting Melodyne and Addictive Drums sort of pays for itself.

John
 
Getting in and out fast may suit you but is it really the best way to get good answers to your questions?
 

A related issue is not paying attention to the answers that are given. and therefore drawing incorrect conclusions that get perpetuated in future questions.
 

 
People will go to a lot of effort to help when they think it is being appreciated.  
 

 
The community is indeed extremely helpful, but people don't have infinite amounts of patience. If someone is perceived as taking over the forum in the expectation that it will be a 24/7 personal tutor and a large number of threads on the front page cater to their unique needs, at some point people will stop answering because the person is only taking, and giving back nothing in return. People who consider their needs more important than those of others eventually wear out their welcome.
 
My pet peeve is when a feature isn't understood or the documentation hasn't been explored, and thread titles are put up with subject lines like "XX doesn't work!!!" when it in fact works perfectly.
 
Asking if something is a bug only shows the person does not know the intended behavior. If someone suspects a bug, you list the steps to reproduce, and see if anyone else can. If they can, a complete description and the sequence of steps is submitted properly in a bug report form, at which point Cakewalk assigns its priority in the queue.
 
 

CakeAlexS
One thing I would hope for in X4 is that they dump plugins that aren't VST based.

Shhhhhh!!! Not so loud, someone at Cakewalk might hear you. If they drop DX support, then I won't be able to use Sony's plug-ins in Sonar. 

Naa not saying they should drop support for other plugin formats Craig, just stop supplying the plugins themselves in new versions of Sonar or make them into VST's.