• SONAR
  • X3 Trial Workflow issues
2014/05/28 09:41:42
Dilaco1
Just downloaded Sonar X3 trial. I’m currently still using version 8.5. Several issues already with X3 regarding workflow, and I hope it’s only due to an oversight on my behalf:
 
Firstly the Piano Roll view – which I go in and out of frequently – has strange behaviour: it comes up as a half size window instead of filling the whole screen. I have to keep maximizing it – not just once, but each time I bring it up. And then there seems to be no way to get out of the Piano Roll except to close it with the red x. If I use my shortcut button on my controller to go from Piano Roll to Track view, or to Console view, the Piano Roll remains, it doesn’t go away. I hope this can be rectified somehow.
 
Secondly, my beloved icons on the control bar, are they gone forever, or can I find them somehow? My tempo change icon, for example, I use it all the time to insert tempo changes in my symphonic compositions. I know I can change overall tempo by clicking on the tempo module, but I might have up to 50 tempo changes in a piece and they have to be inserted in certain places. Without the icon I have to go Projects > Insert Tempo Change. Another favourite, amongst others, was the meter/key icon. Is there a way to get icons like these to show in X3 like in Sonar 8?
 
Also the modules on the control bar don’t fit. The help manual states that they won’t all fit if you don’t have the screen resolution on full. Well, I do have resolution on full (1920 x 1080) on a 22 inch screen and there are still 5 modules “offscreen”.
 
I thought there were supposed to be improvements with workflow? So far all my go to functions require extra clicks of the mouse, and the negotiating of submenus. Another go to for me is the Velocity edit tools window. I was hoping for a quicker means to get to it than in Sonar 8.5, but it’s still the same, it’s still a 5 stage process: Right click clip > Process Effect > MIDI Effects > Cakewalk FX > Velocity. And no shortcut.
 
I’m only thinking of upgrading to X3 because the new version of Altiverb (7) has issues in Sonar 8. But if none of the above can be rectified I’ll be going back to Altiverb 6 and sticking to Sonar 8.5.
2014/05/28 10:17:59
Grem
Well, if you want workflow like 8.5, you won't find it in X3.

But if your willing to adapt to a new workflow, X3 is the best thing CW has come out with!

However, if you do choose to go with X3, most of what you know in 8.5 won't work the same in X3.

I have 8.5 and thought it was the greatest Sonar of all. But there were features of the X series that I could see from the beginning was going to be great. And with X3, that has come to being realized. I won't go back to 8.5

Come on over, it will feel uncomfortable at first, but you will see, as many before you have. There is no loss!!
2014/05/28 10:29:48
scook
Don't close the piano roll view. If you are working with the PRV docked use the shortcuts. SHIFT+D will maximize the PRV. D will toggle the PRV from collapsed to open.
 
If you are married to the idea of button bar, Duckbar http://www.sonarmods.com/forum/index.php will add one. I believe most use keyboard shortcuts to navigate the X series.
 
2014/05/28 10:45:12
Anderton
The X-series is like learning a different DAW. It takes a while, but Grem nailed it.
 
What you give up in the X-series mostly has workarounds, and what you gain is substantial. 
2014/05/28 11:17:59
paulo
I made the same jump as you when X3 came out because I was considering melodyne and Addictive drums anyway, so it kinda became a no brainer for me, but it was with some reluctance because not everything in X series is an improvement over 8.5. On the whole, though, I like X3 now,  some things are quicker once you know how and some things not so, but the melodyne integration is so slick it's almost worth the entry fee on it's own, but I'd have the 8.5 console view all day, every day over the current version. The Undo function also doesn't work properly any more, which has been flagged I believe, but not yet fixed in any of the updates which is disappointing as I'm guessing with all the current sales promos that X4 is on the way which usually spells the end of any chance of things being fixed.
2014/05/30 11:45:15
Dilaco1
Thanks guys for your encouragement.
 
I have held back responding for a day or two as I have tried to make time to get to know the X3 trial. Plus I didn’t think folks would appreciate another thread comparing 8 and the X versions. I must say it is sad, though, that when a piece of technology is upgraded there is almost always some valued element that gets thrown out with the new design. To quote from Paulo’s post:  “... but I’d have the 8.5 console view all day, every day over the current version...” Apparently the “Duckbar” mentioned by Scook is an active response to such a loss.
 
Anyway, I managed to resize the PRV by manually stretching the boarders with the mouse instead of maximizing it; now it comes up the size I want it.
 
I am going to have to come on board because of Altiverb. No doubt I will have more specific questions arise as I begin working seriously with X3.
2014/05/30 14:04:39
Anderton
The Console view is controversial. Frankly, I never used it in 8.5 or X1 but with X3 I'm using it heavily. Much of that is because of screensets and Quick Groups, which are extremely helpful.
2014/05/30 14:13:14
John
Outside of the color limitations in the X series I don't see much difference in the CV from 8.5. 
 
The number of sends shown were reduced but beyond that I'm not too sure what is so different. 
 
Ultimately when you do figure out X3 and know it well enough I think you will not miss 8.5.  
2014/05/30 20:09:10
Anderton
My workaround to show four sends is to show two in the main console view, and another two in the track inspector.
2014/05/30 22:21:46
rbowser
Dilaco1...I thought there were supposed to be improvements with workflow? So far all my go to functions require extra clicks of the mouse...



Several weeks into X3, and that quote from you is the best capsule version of what I still feel about X3.  The visuals were simplified for the sake of hiding everything in menus and keybindings.  8.5 with all the controls just hanging out and easily accessible was much easier and intuitive.  X3 is like some very fussy mother has swept through to pick up my room, making everything all nice and tidy - the problem being, now I don't know where anything is - I had things messy because it worked for me and I could easily grab whatever I needed.
 
Of course Cakewalk stalwarts will Always say "Yeah, forget the old way, learn a whole new way, pal"--because that's your only choice!  There aren't any improvements in the PRV, for instance - it's just become more fiddly and slower to work with.  Same processes, just arbitrarily changed by people who seemed to have been more concerned with looks than functionality.  You do exactly the same things as before, only now with more mouse clicks, more keybindings, more nerdy button pushing.
 
X3 has some very nice things about it - But it was, IMHO, a very bad decision to so arbitrarily change the way so many things are accessed - There was no point in doing that.  All they should have done was keep up the improvements and nice plugins - Most of the rest of it, for me, is a big misfire.
 
Randy B.
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