For many years I've used F3 and F4 as "go to next bar" and "Go to previous bar"
and
Control-F3  as "go to next marker" and Control-F4 as "Go to previous marker"
 
In X3 I can use Keyboard Shortcuts to program all of the above, except Control F4
 
In X3 by default this is what Control F4 does:
Control-F4 = Close current floating window
Control-F4 = CLose Project
 
When I use Keyboard Shortcuts to program Control F4, it works fine unless a window is open. If so then it closes that window. Then I have to open the window again and avoid Control-F4
 
X1 and every previous version of Sonar didn't have this limitation. Is there a way to program this? Or is it a bug that needs to be reported?
 
 

"always been" was an assumption ... sorry.
I'm not contesting that CTRL+F4 can't be bound to a hot key.
I believe it should be excluded because it is a very old "inherent in Windows" hot key for any windows app. that can use multiple windows.

I just re confirmed by testing it on Note Tab Pro and it does what it should.
CTRL+F4 closes the active tab, and of course ALT+F4 kills the whole app even when multiple tabs/windows are open. These are both hard wired into Windows since win '98 and shouldn't be messed with in my opinion.

In 4.0.2 ALT+F4 close the whole program no matter how many windows are open.
CTRL+F4 closes windows 1 at a time until left with an empty frame and no project.

In X3 I'm seeing inconsistencies.
ALT+F4 and CTRL+F4 seem to do the same thing, i.e. close open windows, even docked windows
BUT only if the *second* docked window is *intentionally* made active by clicking on it's tab / header.
Do it one too often without making sure the docked window is active and BAM!!! ... it closes the whole project, even if I'm seeing 3 docked tabs with one of them full screen right in front of me. ( bad programming )

My guess is that one of the bakers thought ALT+F4 was a cool thing to close a window, and not the whole app and wrote it in that way at some point. ... bad and short sighted is all I can say.
 
In my opinion, both CTRL+F4 and ALT+F4 should be removed from the code, allowing Windows to do what it has always done.

Steve_Karl
"always been" was an assumption ... sorry.
I'm not contesting that CTRL+F4 can't be bound to a hot key.
I believe it should be excluded because it is a very old "inherent in Windows" hot key for any windows app. that can use multiple windows.

I just re confirmed by testing it on Note Tab Pro and it does what it should.
CTRL+F4 closes the active tab, and of course ALT+F4 kills the whole app even when multiple tabs/windows are open. These are both hard wired into Windows since win '98 and shouldn't be messed with in my opinion.

In 4.0.2 ALT+F4 close the whole program no matter how many windows are open.
CTRL+F4 closes windows 1 at a time until left with an empty frame and no project.

In X3 I'm seeing inconsistencies.
ALT+F4 and CTRL+F4 seem to do the same thing, i.e. close open windows, even docked windows
BUT only if the *second* docked window is *intentionally* made active by clicking on it's tab / header.
Do it one too often without making sure the docked window is active and BAM!!! ... it closes the whole project, even if I'm seeing 3 docked tabs with one of them full screen right in front of me. ( bad programming )

My guess is that one of the bakers thought ALT+F4 was a cool thing to close a window, and not the whole app and wrote it in that way at some point. ... bad and short sighted is all I can say.
 
In my opinion, both CTRL+F4 and ALT+F4 should be removed from the code, allowing Windows to do what it has always done.

If I understanding you correctly, you're saying that you don't think users should be allowed to use Control-F4 as their own custom key binding? Maybe that thinking would have been ok a decade or more ago, when they first contemplated allowing users to use it as a key binding, but it's idiotic for users that have been using this successfully for many many years.
 
Too late, the cat is out of the bag. I'm sure there are other users that have custom key bindings also, that they keep from version to version. That certainly takes the sting out of learning the new version, when your shortcut keys are mostly the same.
 
I use F4 to advance 1 bar and F3 to to go back 1 bar. You can hold one if these keys and it zooms very fast forward or backward. I use Control-F4 to advance to the next marker and Control-F3 to go to the previous marker. So it's kind of an extension of F3 and F4. I like this method, because I can have my left hand pressing the F3 and F4 while my right hand is on the mouse.
 
Also if I'm using F3+4 to go forward or backward, all I have to do is put my thumb on the Control key and I'm now moving by markers. These are likely the most important shortcuts that I use, because I use them constantly..
 
I understand what you mean about Alt-F4, probably once a year I accidently close the program, but if you're aware of that and careful, it's not an issue. I hope Cakewalk fixes this bug in X3. This will in no way affect you, Steve, they won't be changing the default operation of these keys only the ability to override those keys using key bindings.
 
To me user customization should be almost a sacred trust. This has been what has made Cakewalk products so powerful, users being able to do what they want to do, as it fits their needs and workflow.

gmp
 
If I understanding you correctly, you're saying that you don't think users should be allowed to use Control-F4 as their own custom key binding? Maybe that thinking would have been ok a decade or more ago, when they first contemplated allowing users to use it as a key binding, but it's idiotic for users that have been using this successfully for many many years.

No. What I'm saying is don't try to override Windows inherent code in Sonar.
You're assuming it worked because the bakers wrote it in.
I'm suggesting it always worked because it was left alone, never coded into Sonar until recently, and Windows always did it just because that's the way Windows deals with those keys.
Example: Sonar 4.0.2 and Note Tab Pro both react exactly the same way to both CTRL+F4 and ALT+F4 because there is no code involving those keys written into NTP or Sonar 4. Windows is allowed to do what it is expected to do.

 

gmp
Too late, the cat is out of the bag. I'm sure there are other users that have custom key bindings also, that they keep from version to version. That certainly takes the sting out of learning the new version, when your shortcut keys are mostly the same.
 

The cat has always been out of the bag with CTRL+F4 and ALT+F4 as they are written into Windows.
 

gmp
I use F4 to advance 1 bar and F3 to to go back 1 bar. You can hold one if these keys and it zooms very fast forward or backward. I use Control-F4 to advance to the next marker and Control-F3 to go to the previous marker. So it's kind of an extension of F3 and F4. I like this method, because I can have my left hand pressing the F3 and F4 while my right hand is on the mouse.
 
Also if I'm using F3+4 to go forward or backward, all I have to do is put my thumb on the Control key and I'm now moving by markers. These are likely the most important shortcuts that I use, because I use them constantly..
 
I understand what you mean about Alt-F4, probably once a year I accidently close the program, but if you're aware of that and careful, it's not an issue. I hope Cakewalk fixes this bug in X3. This will in no way affect you, Steve, they won't be changing the default operation of these keys only the ability to override those keys using key bindings.
 
To me user customization should be almost a sacred trust. This has been what has made Cakewalk products so powerful, users being able to do what they want to do, as it fits their needs and workflow.

I've been using custom hot keys for decades also.
I think the inconsistency with CTRL+F4 and ALT+F4 I'm seeing in X3 is because of the attempt to over ride Windows inherent hot keys. If they can get it to work in a consistent way then I'm all for it.
If not, then I'd say don't try to over ride Windows inherent hot keys and flag them as not assignable.
Then they'll just work predictably because they're still written into Windows.

I'm not sure if they've written that into code. I've talked to a cakewalk support person on the phone and have also emailed him back and forth, since he seems to be assigned to my case and he said it's clearly a bug. Maybe he wouldn't know if it was written in to code, but he did think that it should be able to be reprogrammed with key bindings.
I set up those key bindings in the 1st version of Sonar that used key bindings, so that's how long it's worked just fine overriding Control-F4. I've saved my key bindings files and see my earliest one is Sonar 4.02 in 2005. So I think it's a little late for them to hard wire that into the program and flag them as unassignable. How about 9 years too late.
 
In the X3 help file, there are actually 2 instances of keyboard shortcuts for
CTRL+F4 Close project and Close current floating window. If I program CTRL+F4 to go to the next marker, then it works fine as long as a floating window is not open. It never Closes the project, that one is successfully overridden.
Close current floating window
CTRL+F4

 
My CTRL+F4 and ALT+F4 have always been unassigned in sonar and they work perfectly because of the inherent Windows code.
 

gmp
I've saved my key bindings files and see my earliest one is Sonar 4.02 in 2005. So I think it's a little late for them to hard wire that into the program and flag them as unassignable. How about 9 years too late.
In the X3 help file, there are actually 2 instances of keyboard shortcuts for
CTRL+F4 Close project and Close current floating window.

Well they must have just recently started messing with it if it's described in the help file.
It was, by default, unassigned in 4.0.2.

I also believe that's an inaccurate description of the function in the X3 help file.
It would be clearer to say:
"close any open window inside the app frame"
because it also closes a docked window *if* that window is active.
It would also be way more functional if they could get it to actually work consistently and accurately,
i.e. for every docked window without having to make the window active by clicking it, and descending all the way back to the track view, closing the project.
If they hadn't and didn't attempt to intercept Windows programming by writing Sonar code,
the description should have been:
"normal windows behavior - google it!"

gmp
If I program CTRL+F4 to go to the next marker, then it works fine as long as a floating window is not open. It never Closes the project, that one is successfully overridden.

It is clearly a bug, if their intent was to be able to override Windows programming for CTRL+F4, but I believe that is the mistake, i.e. attempting to over ride the Windows code.
I don't believe they're ever going to be able to fix it and make it work consistently.
My guess is that it seems to be related to and conflicting with the multi-dock.
I believe it would be wiser to remove any Sonar code related to both CTRL+F4 and ALT+F4 and give the control back to Windows and flag them as un assignable. It's never too late for improvements.

I've never had either CTRL+F4 or ALT+F4 assigned in bindings and they've always worked as expected,
i.e. as Windows code dictates,
i.e. until X3.
In X3 they now require more work, (activating a window by clicking it's tab) to get them to function properly.
The inconsistent behavior in X3 might be because of how the multi-dock works.

I use:
F11 = go to previous measure
F12 = go to next measure
F7 = go to previous marker
F8 = go to next marker
SHFT+F9 = select from now
SHFT+F10 = select to through

For X3 I had to add the SHFT to the last 2 to stay out of the way of keys assigned to the new tools.
In 4.0.2 they are still just F9 and F10.
It'll take me a few sessions to get used to it.
 

I have X1, don't have X2. In X1 I can program Control-F4 just fine with key bindings, it doesn't close the floating window. So it's not a limitation due to multi-dock. It more like you said, in X3 they're messing with the code. From what you said it seems you'd be pleased if it worked the way it did in 4.02, so would I. Then you could leave those as default Windows shortcuts and I could program them the way I want. Didn't you upgrade from 4.02 to X3?

Unless your left hand is very big and flexible, this key mapping will be easier to use and more convenient IMO:
http://forum.cakewalk.com...aspx?m=3022079&p=1
(I'm posting from a smartphone so you might see the mobile site)

Jlien X
Unless your left hand is very big and flexible, this key mapping will be easier to use and more convenient IMO:
http://forum.cakewalk.com...aspx?m=3022079&p=1
(I'm posting from a smartphone so you might see the mobile site)

Jlien X
Unless your left hand is very big and flexible, this key mapping will be easier to use and more convenient IMO:
http://forum.cakewalk.com...aspx?m=3022079&p=1
(I'm posting from a smartphone so you might see the mobile site)

 

thanks, that's good also. But Ido have very long flexible pianists hands I can reach an 11th. So Control-F3 is easy for me

gmp
 Didn't you upgrade from 4.02 to X3?

yep. 4.0.2 to X3.