Hello

I have looked into using the tutorial here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkWeQR4UJf0
Great tutorial but I have a question.

There are two examples in the video above, one where a kick duck for the bass (3:27), and one "Pumping the mix" (4:27). 
However, I am wondering if people use these technique at the same time in a mix? Can you do this? I am producing house/electronic music and really want to get my head around this for better productions.

I am thinking:
A kickdrum sidechaining a bassline using the first technique. This help the kick and bass separeted and pumping

When do I then use the second technique?

I would be very thankful for an explaination around this.

Thanks!

Yes i do! Im a Trance/ElectrO Producer signed to a label here in the U.K -
I sidechain and pump at various times in a track .but i also sidechain this away from the kick too -Basically to keep that thud !!!!hope this helps 

Hello and thanks!


Could you please give an example/elaborate around this?
Do you use several Sidechain buses, or how do you set the mixer up?

Thanks again:)

Foster Mansfield


Yes i do! Im a Trance/ElectrO Producer signed to a label here in the U.K -
I sidechain and pump at various times in a track .but i also sidechain this away from the kick too -Basically to keep that thud !!!!hope this helps 

Parallel compression is used to fatten up the sound of a target track. It provides a smashed transient version of a track leaving you with more of the softer level sounds from the source track. You combine the parallel version with the original track and it sounds like you are fattening up the sound. Good for vocals, kicks, snare, overhead drums. The idea is to bring up some of the lower level information from the compressed parallel source and combine it with the original.

Sidechain is used to lower the volume or transients of one musical instrument, say bass, to let another musical instrument, say kick drum, to come forward a bit when they sound simultaneously. It tightens up the sound and helps to even out the sound so that overlapping frequences don't create too much build up. Used for controlling the bass as above or for some really creative things like using a vocal to control the reverb so that it is softer while the vocalist sings but gets louder immediately after the vocal finishes creating a nice tail. Damping an organ when the piano player is playing solo. Damping an acoustic guitar while the vocalist is singing. Lot's of things.

If you want a good example of "pumping the mix" then it can be found on Daft Punk's "One More Time," listen to how the bass drum triggers compression on the synth and creates that classic pumping dance sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RTF4OPzf8

However, I am wondering if people use these technique at the same time in a mix? Can you do this? I am producing house/electronic music and really want to get my head around this for better productions.

When do I then use the second technique?

You do both of those procedures when ever its needed and you dotn do them when its not needed.. There are no wrong or right times to use things like this.
 
You do what ever it takes to make the song sound the way you want it to. For example: If that means high passing every track at 150hZ, then thats what you do. Each song, no matter what genre will need different thnigs done to it in order for it to sound the way you want it to.
 
Cj

What CJ said.

A lot of learning mixers think there are hard and fast rules for applying technique. There are spheres of approach but no hard and fast rules. Van Gogh didn't always use yellow for flowers and green for grass in every painting. There were shades of yellow and green that were different depending on the scene, the light of the day etc. It's the same for mixing. Listen to the sound material. Think about what it needs based on commercial examples. Make your move.
 
Go to Pensados Place and listen to Dave's "Into the Lair" ITL acronym. He gives you many spheres of approach.

Thanks guys!

Middleman, you really explained the difference between the SC/PC in a good way. Thanks.

shark - I love that song, and know that "good" dance tracks often uses SC/PC to fatten the sound and "make it pump". Thus I want to learn how to master the two techniques.

CJ and Middleman - You are absolutely correct, there are no "right and wrong" as long at it sounds good:) In terms of SD/PC and Van Gogh, he mastered the technique but played by his own rules. To understand the technique helps me to make my productions as I want them to sound.

Q: Where can I find Pensados Place? [FOUND IT]!:)

I have yet to figure out how to even set the compression up on what track. I don't mean to sound like a total noob here as I have been remixing music for more than 25+ years now and a long time user of Sonar. I just never ventured into the compression area of things from Sonar until lately. I just can't seem to get this thing set up correctly. I have been trying to use the PC4K channel compressor to add to the audio channel the drums are on to get the ducking sound but no such luck. I know it has to be something easy I am simply overlooking. Can any wonderful folks here help a guy out? 
Thanks!
Using X3 Pro btw.
 
 
UPDATE: Nevermind! I finally figured it out woohoo!
 
Thanks for the reply tho Sharke! :D

Someone else will chime in as to what to do to set up a sidechain (I'm not at my computer), but I thought I'd just throw this in: you might not want to go "all the way" towards that ducking sound. Admittedly its quite overdone in EDM at this point, although it still sounds great if done tastefully. You can, however, achieve a bit of subtle "bounce" to your track without full-on ducking, simply by setting up some master bus compression to breathe with the kick.

You can use pretty much any compressor that has attack and release controls. Just set the threshold so that the meter shows between 4-6dB of gain reduction with every thwack of the kick. Raise the attack until the gain reduction happens without affecting the sound of the kick at all (I set it to maximum and bring it down until I just start to hear the kick lose some of it's body, then back it off a bit). Then set the release so that the gain reduction meter is getting back to zero just before the next kick sounds. You don't need to set the ratio that high, maybe 4:1 - 6:1.

If you do it right, you should see the gain reduction meter "grooving" with the kick, and it'll give you tune just a little bit of bounce which, although not that noticeable when listening to it, you'll sure miss when you turn the compressor off.

Some people like to set this master bus "bounce" compression up from the get-go, because the added groove it creates will inspire your musical decisions when arranging and mixing the track.