• SONAR
  • Experienced user, still not having it with Cakewalk Sonar products..
2014/06/01 06:54:35
nealios
I've been a cakewalk user for years, used it on decent laptops years ago with decent results.
I went with Sonar X3 Producer mainly for the plugins, and I was familiar with cakewalk already.
Now I have my own built PC, with the works.  Used for photoshop, music, vid editing, etc..
 
Intel i7 3440
16gb ram
256gb ssd (OS drive)
128gb ssd (plugins drive)
1tb HHD (Data drive)
GTX 660 TI video card
 
Roland Quad capture interface
Korg 61key Midi controller
 
With this built beast I was sure I would be able to handle and play in realtime in my most demanding projects, which really are not
all that big, less than 10 tracks on average.  16/44, up to 24/96.
everythings up to date, drivers, etc..
 
And so far Sonar X3, 6, 7.5, have been the most frustrating programs that Ive used and owned!
I've used other DAWS.  To me, Reaper was great!! probably the best daw i've used, keyboard shortcuts and
navigation is the best, wish Sonar had the same layouts.  What reaper didn't have was the plugins. I would use the plugins from sonar 6, or 7.5, Reaper would handle them better, with no dropouts, hickups, anything, on my old laptop..
 
So my Cakewalk Sonar Preferences that I use are the defaults, seemed my computer could handle default settings,
I/O buffers, latency and such.
 
So do you really have to play/record with very big latencies, buffers and what not?  I was sure that I would be able to play and record in realtime with my newly built beast PC, seems it could handle everything.  Everything except Sonar.  Z3ta+2 for example, with limiters on and everything perfect, I can't make a tone from scratch without a dropout. 
 
Seems theres something wrong on my part, but its only with sonar..
I will give yal gurus a post of my settings later when I have time, Its just frustrating ya know!!
 
 
 
 
 
 
2014/06/01 10:54:10
gswitz
You need to run Latency Monitor to discover what on your system is causing your issue.
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
It's a free tool.
 
I'm presuming you aren't having a hard drive constraint. That can also cause dropouts if you are trying to write lots of large files.
 
I'll bet a dollar your problem is with long deferred procedure calls from some driver.
2014/06/01 11:02:12
Anderton
At 24/96kHz, for small projects I can run Sonar with a 1 millisecond buffer and no dropouts. For most 44.1kHz projects the buffer is 96 or 128 samples. Some of these projects run over 100 tracks with no dropouts. My computer is similar to yours. So, the problem is not with Sonar.
 
The nature of your tracks will influence latency. 10 tracks of U-He's Diva set to the highest possible resolution/CPU consumption will challenge any computer. Latency will also depend on which plug-ins you use. Plug-ins with look-ahead functions, like Waves' maximizers and others, add latency to the base latency. With those plug-ins you can have a very low latency setting in preferences, but experience significant latency due to the plug-in.
 
You should not be getting dropouts with a single instance of Z3TA+. There is something wrong.
 
2014/06/01 11:12:13
scook
I would suggest narrowing down that range of sample rates to 44.1 or 48KHz @ 24bit and concentrate on getting the parameters correct that configuration, first. Please provide details about ASIO buffer settings. Default settings often require turning and the tuning is system specific. Running a diagnostic tool like latencymon is good idea. It is unclear whether the Z3TA+2 issues are audio dropouts or missing MIDI notes. How is the CPU load (esp. the first bar in the load monitor in SONAR)?
2014/06/01 11:19:22
robert_e_bone
If you are using the defaults, are you possibly using WDM Driver Mode?
 
For recording purposes, I suggest the following settings:
 
Audio interface: Sample Rate of either 44.1 k or 48 k, ASIO Buffer Size of 128
Sonar: Driver Mode of ASIO, Sample Rate that matches interface's, Record Bit-Depth of 24 bits.
 
When recording, you want to try to get your Sonar-reported Total Roundtrip Latency to around 10 milliseconds or just under it.  This gives a good balance, and you can get a BUNCH of tracks and synths to work within those settings for recording purposes.
 
When done with recording, and you move on to mixing, you will likely need to bump your ASIO Buffer Size up to as high as 1024, depending on what plugin effects you load in.  This is because some effects, by design, add massive latency to do what they do.  Such effects are NOT meant for use in recording, because of the latency they add (which is why you need to bump up the ASIO Buffer Size).  Examples of these include: Perfect Space and Boost 11, and there are others from Cakewalk, as well as other vendors.
 
Sooooooo, give the above settings a try and post back.  If you still have the dropouts and such, it may then be due to the loaded effects in a given project.  To test that theory, you can hit the 'E' key on your computer keyboard, and that will toggle off/on all effects.  If dropouts and crackles that are present go away after bypassing all effects, then one or more of the loaded effects in that project are likely meant for mixing/mastering, and not for recording.
 
I hope the above helps, 
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/06/01 14:45:19
nealios
My Driver settings 96Khz 24bit, 512 sample buffer size on my interface,
Driver mode is ASIO, sample rates are the same for interface and project 96000.
 
under PREFERENCES / SYNC AND CACHING,
Playback and record I/O buffer size both at 256
I have not enabled any read or write caching,
reported latency from all adjustments is 1750 samples.
 
under PREFERENCES / PLAYBACK AND RECORDING
128 for midi buffering, playback preparing set at 256 millisecond buffers ( haven't touched yet)
 
everything else is pretty much straight out of the box, get up and go sorta deal.
I've selected my inputs, outputs, Devices, folder locations, correctly im sure.
 
Ive only been having problem with Sonar and using plugin/instruments it seems "Z3TA, Addictive Drums 2, and for some
reason, Pentagon plugin crashes sonar when loading up tones?  never messed or used pentagon before, but im pretty sure it wasn't made to do that, i hope.
 
Anyways, i've found reaper again and installed it to try something out.  Some plugins don't load up in Reaper becuase of
cakewalks restrictions, but some of the plugins i've bought do, Addictive drums, Z3ta 2.  They perform sooooooooooooooooooooooo good in Reaper. I can't retain the excitement im sorry.
 
being able to cycle through Addictive drum kits, and Z3ta 2 presets, pressing a key pad without a dropout gets me thinking it has to do something with sonar, or settings within it,  not my computer?? right? maybe a clean installation of Sonar..
 
 
 
 
2014/06/01 16:05:02
S.L.I.P.
nealios, I feel your pain.  I have a monster computer, and I've experienced random dropouts. I've had projects with over 30 tracks, and a ton of effects, soft synths, and not had a single dropout, but I've had projects with 7 audio tracks, and no effects, and I will experience random dropouts.  I've read, and tried everything I can find to eliminate this problem.  I do see that you have the Roland quad capture, and that is what I have as well.   I'm thinking about getting a different audio interface. 
2014/06/01 17:00:08
gswitz
Please post the results from Latency Monitor so we can read what's up. I think we'll be able to help.
2014/06/01 17:18:11
Splat
Well...
 
1) First tweak it as others have suggested (latency etc).
2) See if you can nail it down to a particular plugin (maybe).
3) Update plugins, firmware, drivers, and windows update, Sonar to X3E etc. Also perform a VST reset.
4) Defrag.
5) Configure your virus scanner to ignore certain file path with real time scan.
6) All else fails backup and wipe the partition and reinstall the OS (very much a last resort). Do not install plugins you are not going to use, avoid 32 bit plugins. Keep it clean and don't install programs that a non DAW related (like skype for instance). If you need that sort of thing go for a dual boot environment.
 
What is your operating system version? 64 bit?
 
Cheers...
2014/06/01 17:55:53
robert_e_bone
Just for a test, please drop your sample rate for both the audio interface and for Sonar from 96 k to 48 k, and also drop your ASIO Buffer Size to 128 - (try to get your Sonar-reported Total Roundtrip Latency to around 10 milliseconds or just a little under).
 
Then, test the above out recording in a new project, building up number of synths, midi tracks, audio tracks, and audio effects (careful not to use effects that add lots of latency), and post back on how all of that goes.
 
Thanks, 
 
Bob Bone
 
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