• SONAR
  • [UPDATE] Audio Engine quirks (p.2)
2014/05/19 01:13:48
scook
I hope you will believe me when I tell you the audio engine is enabled when I open an empty project. Do I really need to create an account somewhere and post a picture? I do believe the picture you have posted represents a snapshot in time on your system. After inserting a synth in an empty project do you have to enable the audio engine to test a patch? Or does the engine turn on when it sees midi data from the controller? In my case, I add a synth to my empty project (n.b. the audio engine is already running) and can test the synth right away.
 
It may be system specific, IDK. I can only speak for my system and configuration.
2014/05/19 01:34:57
John
scook
I hope you will believe me when I tell you the audio engine is enabled when I open an empty project. Do I really need to create an account somewhere an post a picture? I do believe the picture you have posted represents a snapshot in time on your system. After inserting a synth in an empty project do you really have to enable the audio engine to test a patch? Or does the engine turn on when it sees midi data from the controller? In my case, I add a synth to my empty project (n.b. the audio engine is already running) and can test the synth right away.
 
It may be system specific, IDK. I can only speak for my system and configuration.


No Scook. I don't know what is going on and no you do not need to prove anything. 
 
As soon as there is some sound to play either a synth or audio it does as it says in the manual and will automatically turn on. I never have to deal with the audio engine. Basically that was all I was trying to get across to the OP.
 
Loading a MIDI file and playing it via a hardware synth there is no change to the audio engine button it appears off. I would expect this. The moment I inserted a synth the button came on. This was also expected. I did nothing to the button at all. If I turn the button off and then hit play it comes on again. 
 
 
2014/05/19 11:50:21
robert_e_bone
In 20+ years, I have never once had to deal with the audio engine being off or on, period.
 
So, just so I can sleep tonight, please do the following and tell me if you get sound (please note there are lots of ways to do things in Sonar, and the following are but one way, HOWEVER, the following steps work, so let's follow them exactly):
 
1.  Launch Sonar
2.  Since I understand you have a modified template that opens, CLOSE it so no project is open.
3.  Click File>New, and create a brand-new project - call it whatever - using the Cakewalk-supplied 16 Track Audio project template (NOT your modified Normal template).  The 16 Track Audio project template is just their original Normal template, loaded with 16 audio tracks.  Please note this will have extra tracks, but it is no big deal to remove those, and we will be then very close to the original Normal template.
4.  Click on the 'X' at the bottom left corner of the Console Pane, to close it for now.
5.  Click directly on the '2' on the far left side of the second track in the Track Pane, which will highlight it.
6.  Now, hold Shift down and click on the '16' on the far left side of the 16th track in the Track Pane, which will highlight tracks 2-16.
7.  Now, right click on any one of the highlighted track numbers, and click on 'Delete 15 Tracks', which will simply leave us with Track 1 - which is an audio track, and we will also have 3 buses (Master, Metronome, and Preview - though you won't see those buses since we closed the Console Pane).
 
OK, so now we already have an audio track to work with.  We just need to add a midi track, load a soft synth, make the appropriate routing assignments, and play some sounds.
 
1.  Right click in the Track Pane, under the existing Track 1, and insert a midi track.
2.  In the Media Browser, click on the tab labelled Synth.
3.  Now, click on the '+' to get the Insert Synth dialog started.
4.  Expand the 'Insert Synth' then expand DirectX, and click on 'Cakewalk TTS-1 '.
5.  This will open the 'Insert Soft Synth Options' dialog box.  For purposes of this walk through, leave only the 'Synth Property Page', 'Recall Assignable Controls', and 'Ask This Every Time' boxes checked.
6.  Sonar will complete the insertion of the TTS-1 synth, with no associated tracks or assignments.
7.  Go ahead and close  TTS-1 UI.  It already has a Piano sound loaded into channel 1, and that's all I am looking for at the moment.
 
OK, so now we need to connect the dots, between the tracks and the synth.
 
 
1.  Click on the '1' to highlight Track 1, the audio track.
2.  Now, in the Inspector Pane, they have Sonar default to having the Pro Channel displayed.  Click on the blue 'Pro Channel' button to click it off.  That will leave the Track Inspector displayed (since you highlighted the audio track, you should see Track 1 and Master channel strips in the Inspector Pane).
3.  Click on the audio track Input, and assign it to: Output 1: Stereo of TTS-1.
4.  Click on the '2' for the midi track, to highlight it.
5.  Click on the Output for Track 2.  The Output should already be set by Sonar to the 1st loaded synth in the synth rack, which happens to be the one we want - TTS-1.
 
OK, so we have midi data being sent to TTS-1, and it will be default react to any input, so if you have a midi controller/keyboard set up, if you play notes on it, you should hear Piano sounds being produced by TTS-1.
 
If you do not have a midi keyboard/controller available, you can still hear sounds, by double-clicking on the TTS-1 in the synth rack, to open its UI, then press and hold the Preview button at the bottom left of channel 1.  This will cycle TTS-1 through a short clip of piano midi data, which you should hear because by having the assignments correctly set, and having highlighted the midi track, Sonar will automatically by default turn on the midi echo on button for the midi track.
 
So, please do EXACTLY the above, and post back on whether or not you get sound.
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/05/19 14:51:38
Cactus Music
In X3e studio, If I create new blank "normal",,, the audio engine is on,
If I choose "Blank Project" it is off. 
All other templates it is on. 
If I close to the empty Sonar screen it goes off. 
 
I then booted 8.5 on my laptop and did not connect an interface, I had to change the driver mode to MME. Now the audio engine does not come on with a Normal Template. 
Boy does Sonar get mad!! I couldn't load a soft synth! any how, this is why I never would even bother using MME and an on board chip. 
2014/05/19 14:54:26
Cactus Music
Bob -We have solved the issue, its a lack of proper drivers, end of story. John has explained it very well I thought. 
Just try it your self, grab and off the self computer and try and run Sonar without an ASIO or WDM drivers.. you'll go nuts if your used to the performance we get with them. 
 
2014/05/19 16:22:52
DaveG74
robert_e_bone
So, just so I can sleep tonight, please do the following and tell me if you get sound (please note there are lots of ways to do things in Sonar, and the following are but one way, HOWEVER, the following steps work, so let's follow them exactly):
 
1.  Launch Sonar
2.  Since I understand you have a modified template that opens, CLOSE it so no project is open.
3.  Click File>New, and create a brand-new project - call it whatever - using the Cakewalk-supplied 16 Track Audio project template (NOT your modified Normal template).  The 16 Track Audio project template is just their original Normal template, loaded with 16 audio tracks.  Please note this will have extra tracks, but it is no big deal to remove those, and we will be then very close to the original Normal template.
4.  Click on the 'X' at the bottom left corner of the Console Pane, to close it for now.
5.  Click directly on the '2' on the far left side of the second track in the Track Pane, which will highlight it.
6.  Now, hold Shift down and click on the '16' on the far left side of the 16th track in the Track Pane, which will highlight tracks 2-16.
7.  Now, right click on any one of the highlighted track numbers, and click on 'Delete 15 Tracks', which will simply leave us with Track 1 - which is an audio track, and we will also have 3 buses (Master, Metronome, and Preview - though you won't see those buses since we closed the Console Pane).
 
OK, so now we already have an audio track to work with.  We just need to add a midi track, load a soft synth, make the appropriate routing assignments, and play some sounds.
 
1.  Right click in the Track Pane, under the existing Track 1, and insert a midi track.
2.  In the Media Browser, click on the tab labelled Synth.
3.  Now, click on the '+' to get the Insert Synth dialog started.
4.  Expand the 'Insert Synth' then expand DirectX, and click on 'Cakewalk TTS-1 '.
5.  This will open the 'Insert Soft Synth Options' dialog box.  For purposes of this walk through, leave only the 'Synth Property Page', 'Recall Assignable Controls', and 'Ask This Every Time' boxes checked.
6.  Sonar will complete the insertion of the TTS-1 synth, with no associated tracks or assignments.
7.  Go ahead and close  TTS-1 UI.  It already has a Piano sound loaded into channel 1, and that's all I am looking for at the moment.
 
OK, so now we need to connect the dots, between the tracks and the synth.
 
1.  Click on the '1' to highlight Track 1, the audio track.
2.  Now, in the Inspector Pane, they have Sonar default to having the Pro Channel displayed.  Click on the blue 'Pro Channel' button to click it off.  That will leave the Track Inspector displayed (since you highlighted the audio track, you should see Track 1 and Master channel strips in the Inspector Pane).
3.  Click on the audio track Input, and assign it to: Output 1: Stereo of TTS-1.
4.  Click on the '2' for the midi track, to highlight it.
5.  Click on the Output for Track 2.  The Output should already be set by Sonar to the 1st loaded synth in the synth rack, which happens to be the one we want - TTS-1.
 
OK, so we have midi data being sent to TTS-1, and it will be default react to any input, so if you have a midi controller/keyboard set up, if you play notes on it, you should hear Piano sounds being produced by TTS-1.
 
If you do not have a midi keyboard/controller available, you can still hear sounds, by double-clicking on the TTS-1 in the synth rack, to open its UI, then press and hold the Preview button at the bottom left of channel 1.  This will cycle TTS-1 through a short clip of piano midi data, which you should hear because by having the assignments correctly set, and having highlighted the midi track, Sonar will automatically by default turn on the midi echo on button for the midi track.
 
So, please do EXACTLY the above, and post back on whether or not you get sound.
 
Bob Bone



I followed each step to the letter. I briefly got confused on step #2 involving closing Pro Channel (found out it was only in Producer). But after all is said and done, I have sound.
 
Now that's great, but it's quiet again once I reload the file. This is where I'm confused. Is this supposed to happen? This is where I have to either insert at least one note or a synth to "wake up" the audio engine. Mind you, I'm just curious. I want to know how this works (I want you to be able to sleep at night, LOL :) )
 
As the Forum link in the first post says, sound will not play if there's no data to play, which is why I am confused as to why I recently can't insert a synth (in a new file) and test the instruments from the Properties outright. MC6 didn't behave this way...
 
2014/05/19 16:41:12
robert_e_bone
Thanks - I get it - I put that together for the OP.
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/05/19 17:31:33
robert_e_bone
What I explained works, and reloading a saved project that worked prior to the save works fine for me and others.
 
I continue to recommend you pick up an audio interface.
 
Bob Bone
 
 
 
 
2014/05/19 19:00:06
gcolbert
Grundberg - I'm assuming that you are using ASIO4ALL?
 
I used it with the internal sound card for a couple of years before getting a dedicated audio interface.  One of the issues that I had with it was that the internal sound card needed to be disabled for Windows sounds and the Windows settings for my internal sound card needed to be set to allow programs to take exclusive control of the sound card.
 
I then had to set up Sonar so that it would take exclusive control of the sound card. 
 
If any windows sounds were made (playing YouTube or anything else) Sonar would not get proper control of the sound card and the audio engine in Sonar would not start properly.  However, if after a fresh reboot, loaded Sonar immediately and then Started Sonar the audio engine still did not start dependably (although sometimes it would work intermittently as seems to be the experience you are having).  If the first thing that I did in Sonar was to open the ASIO4ALL dialog within Sonar, then everything would work without a problem.  Working with the Cakewalk Help Desk we determined that ASIO4ALL was not being initialized properly when loading from Sonar, but opening the ASIO dialog got things initialized.
 
All of this went by the wayside when I got a proper interface and deleted ASIO4ALL from my system.
 
Try turning off windows sounds, setting the exclusive mode of the device and in Sonar, rebooting before using Sonar, open the ASIO panel and then just close it then try using Sonar to see if it doesn't work better for you.
2014/05/19 19:19:49
DaveG74
gcolbert
Grundberg - I'm assuming that you are using ASIO4ALL?
 
Try turning off windows sounds, setting the exclusive mode of the device and in Sonar, rebooting before using Sonar, open the ASIO panel and then just close it then try using Sonar to see if it doesn't work better for you.



Nope. I'm using the "MME (32-bit)" entry in the Audio -> Playback & Recording options.
 
I suppose a control freak such as myself could just insert a silent 1/32 "phantom note" at 1:00:000 in a track somewhere that doesn't play. Then the audio engine would always go on -- but it goes on when the song starts anyway.
 
As stated in my first post, I will still be looking for audio interfaces (especially taking into account Robert's suggestion) to see what's out there.
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