LA2A
How is it that AVID is struggling financially when they have the world's most popular DAW? In raw numbers it sells more than any other DAW, and Reason is not far behind. Mere curiosity leads me to wonder where Sonar stands in the official sales-figures list. One thing is for sure from an industry insider, Presonus Studio One is higher up the list than Sonar apparently, and maybe the upcoming Studio One ver III will cement its position.

 
It has still not been established that Pro Tools or any other DAW is clearly number one is sales. Without numbers and reasoning other than a logical fallacy, your statements are based on unknown and dubious variables. I could easily say I know an "insider" that mysteriously has figures that magic music maker has the most raw sales and it would be just as valid since both are complete bs statements if not backed by the preferred method of folks talking out their anuses worldwide.

After a good 3 months of hunkering down with X3e Studio and 2 albums being worked on, I miss the way 8.5 worked. Xseries as Randy has said is a little overboard on the features that will remain hidden but sneak up on you all the time when you DON'T want them. My list of things I don't like while editing both audio and midi is growing. I'm entrenched right now but I have half a mind to return to 8.5 for the next project to see if I'm correct. 
We all work in a different way and we all need different features, so for for me life is not better. 
The point of what I say, is they seem to have chosen a path that Sonar will have a long, long list of features equating to a very steep learning curve,when what the market might be looking for is ease of use and stability. 
 
PS. You often see newbies asking on Gear slutz the question "what DAW should I buy?" 
And 9 out of 10 replies the list will not include Sonar. Sonar is not on the Radar of the status- quo. 

LA2A
But i must say that official DAW popularity as stated by KVR is interesting. How is it that AVID is struggling financially when they have the world's most popular DAW? In raw numbers it sells more than any other DAW, and Reason is not far behind. Mere curiosity leads me to wonder where Sonar stands in the official sales-figures list. One thing is for sure from an industry insider, Presonus Studio One is higher up the list than Sonar apparently, and maybe the upcoming Studio One ver III will cement its position.

The "statistics" mentioned are hearsay... as we have no tangible figures.
But for sake of example... let's say the statistics are factual.
KPerry pointed this out above, but gross-sales doesn't directly translate to net-profit.
ie: As an individual, if you make $500,000 per year... and you spend $498,000... you're just sliding by.
A company is no different.
Large companies making millions of dollars a year go out of business.
Many individuals making millions a year end up bankrupt.
 
Professionals don't get hired for the gear they use...
They get hired based on skill/reputation... and the ability to deliver.
ie: If you hire David Gilmore to play a solo, are you going to dictate the guitar/strings/amp he uses?
It's all about the end result...
DAW software/hardware is just another tool.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Cactus Music
PS. You often see newbies asking on Gear slutz the question "what DAW should I buy?" 
And 9 out of 10 replies the list will not include Sonar. Sonar is not on the Radar of the status- quo. 

The thing that I've seen cited over and over again for that is stability issues, which unfortunately I encountered myself with X1/2 but muddled through anyway. X3 has been absolutely awesome in this regard so hopefully that reputation can be worn away over time... but it might take a long time. Memories are long with musicians/audio dudes and the internet is forever. I have seen quite a few of the more objective "non-believers" changing their tune with X3 though and there are more people flooding the DAW market than ever before, many of whom will never have heard of Pre-Sonus, Steinberg, Proppelerhead, etc and can't afford the one thing they WILL have heard of (Pro Tools) but WILL have heard of Gibson so there is certainly hope some of those beginners will gravitate toward Sonar.
 
I've been saying it for a while now... with the Gibson acquisition and the maturity/stability of X3 I have a feeling Sonar will end up taking a larger share of the market. It is a really cool program with lots of the things a beginner needs for full production which is I why I bought it after heavily researching all the competitors in its price bracket. I MIGHT have gone with Cubase but the version at the time had a LOT of complaints about stability and the package did not seem to be nearly as robust as Sonar X1. When they released the current version and I was on X2 I was kicking myself for NOT going with Cubase (because X2 was peeving me off to no end) but NOW with X3 my original choice turned out to be the best choice.
 
Funny how that all worked out but it goes to show how finicky all this crap can be and how different folks have different needs. I just hope Cake keeps the momentum going which by all indications they are and will. FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!

I will have disagree with Randy and Cactus in regards to the GUI.
 
I think that the direction that the developers took with regards to the GUI was a great one. Now that I have given myself enough time to really absorb what this new GUI has to offer, I don't want to go back to the old way/GUI/select tool for nothing. Why? Because I now am able to work much faster than I ever did before. It's that simple! And it's all because of the new GUI.
 
And Randy, Cactus, the concerns you both speak about, I had them!! Exactly the same!! But I stuck to my own commitment I made back with X1; I was going to learn the new way. And that meant letting go of things I really really liked. And I won't lie or mislead you, at times it was a struggle.
 
I even use the PRV in the TV now because of the improvements in the GUI/Smart Tool. I only go to the PRV when I need to work on many midi tracks together. And soon I won't need to do that, once I get use to doing it in the TV. It can be done there.
 
I don't think the GUI is keeping people away. More than anything, I think it's the initial investment needed to get going.

GremI will have disagree with Randy and Cactus in regards to the GUI...

I understand you're a fan, Grem, and your enthusiasm is sincere.  I submit that it was an error and fairly pointless to completely re-do the program so that it required learning a new way to do the same routines.  Actual bonafide improvements are always welcome, but to have this disconnect in design and programming from one well-established version to a new one is, IMHO, arbitrary and counter productive.  I'm schlepping my way through, learning the new version, but I resent the time I'm having to put into it, because it's not as if I'm given a better program - it's just a different program.  I could have purchased an entirely different DAW program if I wanted to learn something from square one.
 
Randy

Randy, I think the catch-22 with your stance for cakewalk was whether to cater predominantly to the people like you who thought everything was fine the way it was or cater to the chorus of reviews that criticized cakewalk for things like having an unattractive GUI.  Also, another major complaint about Sonar prior to X series was that the workflow was very unintuitive.  For the most part the reviews seem to be better in those area (at least from the magazines and larger blogs).  For me I think it was an improvement.  At the end of the day, no change is going to be greeted with universal improvement.  There will always be those who cling steadfast to what they are familiar with and disparage new ways as somehow being bad for business since they personally do not like the changes. I know it is not a scientifically accurate way to measure, but a sampling of this forum seems to lean towards more people liking than disliking the changes. 

dubdisciple
Randy, I think the catch-22 with your stance for cakewalk was whether to cater predominantly to the people like you who thought everything was fine the way it was or cater to the chorus of reviews that criticized cakewalk for things like having an unattractive GUI...

Thanks for the post, dubdisciple - I'm hip - A lot of people like X3 very much, and wanted change.  You were very right to mention the GUI first - It seems to me that mere cosmetics were indeed a Major consideration for the developers.  Me - I could not care less what a program looks like.  I just want functioning tools, and Sonar 8.5 was extremely functional.
 
All I can speak to are my own feelings - I'm just saying that IMHO (H="honest" more than "humble"--hehe)- all these changes in X3 were arbitrary and unnecessary - I didn't want a new program.  I would probably simply go back to 8.5 - except I can't.  The X3 installation literally killed my 8.5 so it won't open anymore, and nobody can figure out what the problem is.  When X3 is uninstalled, I still get a runtime error.  If I re-install 8.5, same problem.  Here I am in X3land.
 
I'm getting work done, it's not so horrible, but, returning to the thread topic, I wouldn't have been able to vote Sonar as "the best" DAW - but I could have done that just a few years ago.
 
Randy

randy..I understand.  I have had programs change and i hated the changes.  I honestly think Cakewalk did consider people like you and just came to the conclusion that they were better off going in a different direction.
 
BTW, have you tried doing a complete uninstall where you wipe out all the cakewalk registry entries?  I have not had 8.5 installed in forever but it did work alongside X1 for me.

dubdisciple
 
BTW, have you tried doing a complete uninstall where you wipe out all the cakewalk registry entries?  I have not had 8.5 installed in forever but it did work alongside X1 for me.

Randy, if you really want to go back to 8.5, and if it were me, I'd do a clean install of the OS and start over. Really nothing like a good clean window!!
 
But I would suggest sticking it out with X3. Now that you have the real manual, you can find out how to do what you want.