• SONAR
  • Random MIDI out latency (p.2)
2014/06/01 05:12:25
Cybertizzen
I absolutely agree that high latency is a problem when integrating Sonar with external MIDI gear, and that the latency I've been experiencing most likely is caused by some of my effects.
 
robert_e_bone
Here's the scoop:
 
Some effects are designed to be used AFTER you finish recording, and move into the mixing/mastering phases.  These effects, due to how they do their thing, add MASSIVE latency to projects, and that means you can't really track/record with them present, because of the added latency.

 
I'm just questioning whether this applies to all projects, or only projects where you are using external MIDI gear and/or monitoring through Sonar, that's all.
2014/06/01 12:04:58
robert_e_bone
I use both midi controllers AND external midi-connected gear all the time in Sonar, and do not have latency issues caused by doing so.
 
My earlier posts were talking about for a given project, not for all projects.  
 
Depending on what effects are loaded, due to the nature of those effects adding large amounts of latency, I believe that THESE were the cause - I did not mean to suggest the latency would be caused by some midi-connected device.
 
Midi transfers minuscule amounts of data, so your issues would not appear to me to be the fault of this external device - based on information thus far. 
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/06/01 13:01:34
rbowser
Cybertizzen- Bob Bone has done his usual expert job of helping you out.  I'm just here to reinforce the concept that plugins are going to add latency to your project, to the point of making it impossible to record from a MIDI keyboard.  Latency doesn't matter during mixing, but obviously you gotta have a quick response when you're recording tracks.
 
Here's the advise you probably won't like - I highly recommend you use No effects while recording.  That's been my practice for years, and I've never been frustrated by latency lag.  It does sound more cool and possibly more inspiring to hear that reverb as you play, for instance - but I don't think it's a difficult adaptation to make, just getting used to hearing everything dry and straight-ahead when you're laying in the tracks.  Later, when you start adding the plugins, it can be an exciting kick in the project's butt to hear all those tracks starting to come alive with the FX. 
 
Randy B.
2014/06/01 16:17:05
Cybertizzen
Maybe I was unclear: I did not mean to suggest that external MIDI devices are the CAUSE of latency, nor did I interpret any of Bob's posts to suggest so. I probably misinterpreted the statement that was made, saying you can't really record in projects having high latency as applying to ALL projects.
 
In my experience, latency is not a problem if you aren't using external MIDI gear or monitoring via your DAW. Yes, it's there, but it doesn't affect what you hear, as you're monitoring directly from your audio interface and not via the DAW. This way, the only latency you actually hear is the AD/DA round-trip of your audio interface. I use hardware effects where those are desired on input.
2014/06/01 16:34:19
rbowser
Cybertizzen
Maybe I was unclear: I did not mean to suggest that external MIDI devices are the CAUSE of latency, nor did I interpret any of Bob's posts to suggest so...



?? You weren't unclear - I didn't say you were talking about external MIDI devices.  I was echoing the truism that software plugins will cause latency, so it prevents headaches if MIDI tracks are recorded before any audio effect plugins are activated in a project.  That's what Bob was saying - I was just here to underscore his point.  I never have effects on while I'm tracking - those are saved for the mixing phase.
 
Randy B.
2014/06/01 16:54:39
robert_e_bone
Yeah - some folks skip effects altogether while recording, and some folks use effects sparingly during tracking, and some folks load up the effects without realizing the processing cost of some of them. :)
 
Experiment with the plugins you use in the tracking process - you can usually find a lower-latency inducing swap for one that is biting you in the butt with dropouts and such.
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/06/01 17:08:27
scook
Can always temporarily freeze the affected tracks or bounce down the project to a quick mix w/ effects and temporarily archive the tracks.
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