• SONAR
  • How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk?
2014/05/22 21:27:33
mixmkr
I started with CoolEdit when I first started computer audio in the mid 90's...., of course Sound Forge and CD architect, etc.  Then jumped to Sonar 6 when that version first came out, mainly for the MIDI....then sporadically upgraded with Cake ...and now to X3e where I've dug in pretty decently.  I'm fairly comfortable with X3, but realize there will always be much to learn, better work flows etc.
 
My question, given the above background and long time recordist, but also that I have NEVER used ProTools in all this time, but for sure have seen screen shots, etc...  Would I be able to walk into a studio and start using it right off the bat without having major issues?   Seems most DAW software is similar in the main respects, but if I was a guessing man, I'd say X3 is probably more complicated that PT11.
 Or...if I spent a day mucking around with it...it would all fall into place?
 
The probability of using PT11 in a nice facility seems to be a likelihood in the near future, and wondering if I should buy a copy and learn it at home first.  I would be tracking, engineering and mixing, but not on a strict time clock to start.  Most likely helping with projects for others as well.
2014/05/22 21:45:11
mixmkr
Also I assume PT11 HD and PT11 software is basically the same?  Since non AVID supported I/Os are in use, I would guess I'm talking about PT11 too.
2014/05/22 21:50:18
Dave Modisette
There's a lot different about PT11 once you get past the most basic concepts of inputs and outputs.  There's a lot of hot keys to learn or you will spend a lot of time searching through drop down windows and learning different terminology.  I suggest buying a copy and a week of evening practice will help you to be rudimentally proficient.  Features like Beat Detective and Audio Warp will take more time.  

Coming straight from SONAR the first time I tried it out, I hated it.  It didn't make much sense to me but after playing musical DAW chairs and learning three other programs, the second time was the charm and after I spent some time studying it, I really liked it a lot.  Even though I like the  ARA implementation of Melodyne in SONAR X3 and Studio One 2,  PT11 has become my main recording program because of the GUI and the versatile bussing capabilities.  Beat Detective and Audio Warp rocks.
2014/05/22 21:52:14
Dave Modisette
PT11 HD has some real time monitoring advantages over PT11 Native but with my RME HDSP 9652 card, I don't suffer because of it.
 
2014/05/22 22:28:57
mixmkr
thx Mod.  I've checked out quite a bit of YouTube stuff, and it seems the stuff PT11 doesn't have, like the prochannel and the host of other stuff, it has its' own version of things.  Warp audio seems very much like AutoSnap in many ways, and just stuff like the basic routing didn't seem odd.... which is good.
2014/05/23 00:28:11
Anderton
My current version is PT 10, so I may have missed some extra goodies in PT 11 but in any event, Pro Tools was always the program I recommended for people who were transitioning from 2" 24-track and a mixer to a computer. It's not a single-window program like Sonar X-series, Live, or Reason; people from the tape world were comfortable going to something with separate mixing and recording windows and an obvious, simple workflow.
 
Pro Tools has maintained that stripped-down, traditional recording paradigm while adding features like warp audio, floating-point audio engine, non-real-time bounce, envelopes that didn't require a separate folder, and Beat Detective, although almost always after these features had appeared in other programs. I'm sure there are features I'm overlooking, but other than Beat Detective I really can't think of anything offhand that Pro Tools innovated since it first appeared. MIDI is improved, although still not on a par with the Cubase/Logic/Sonar trio - the emphasis remains on audio recording and mixing. Including a version of Sibelius for notation is a plus but note that although a lot of people assume it's a full version, it's not. FWIW I think the stretchable content that's included is above average in terms of putting sketches together quickly in various genres.
 
What you won't find at all is pretty much anything relating to dance, beats, or EDM other than warp audio. You can't Acidize files or create Apple Loops, there's nothing like the matrix view, no step sequencer, etc. You can't do something like turn a wav file into a stretchable loop, drag it to the desktop, then drag it back in somewhere else. If I had to do EDM on Pro Tools, I'd probably go insane. Same with comping; X3 really changed the game for DAWs in general with that one. I found punches a lot easier in PT than comping (if the artist was any good).
 
PT's PDC is primitive compared to Sonar and other programs, which has tripped me up more than once with things like the UA plugs. But at least it exists now, and I think the worst of its issues have likely been sorted out.
 
Dave is right about the shortcuts, I suggest investing in one of those Pro Tools-specific QWERTY keyboards. If you don't and get one later, you'll kick yourself for not having bought it sooner.
 
For tracking, editing, and mixing, Pro Tools will do what you need it to do, and do it more or less like everyone else so there's not much of a learning curve. As long as you stay within its proscribed functionality, Pro Tools is a relatively painless experience (assuming a sufficiently powerful computing environment, of course). But if you want to venture even a little bit out of the box, it can be very frustrating. I did a hip-hop session back in October that tracked with Pro Tools but when it came time to mix, I had to bring the tracks into Sonar. I couldn't do what was needed in the PT environment.
 
So why do I use Sonar instead of Pro Tools? I do a huge variety of projects that require an equally huge variety of production techniques. I need to be able to shift from rock, to EDM, to remixes, to a quickie soundtrack, to narration, to restoration, etc. There are even some mastering techniques I've developed that can be done most efficiently in Sonar, and I have not found a program whose workflow is compatible with so many project types. But if my goal was simply to track musicians, edit the tracks, do punches, and mix, Pro Tools would do everything I needed.
2014/05/23 07:47:00
BlixYZ
at the very least, you should watch lots of videos.  Beat detective and warp are great tools (better implementation than Audio Snap), but you may never even use them- depending on what type of work you'll be doing.
 
2014/05/23 14:01:24
mixmkr
Wow...great replies.  Thx Craig, as I am coming from a 2"/console background, and what I've seen didn't seem so strange.  I LOVE Sonar and can't dream of switching, but I think I'm going to have some opportunities to work at other places that run PT11.  Plus, I can see doing stuff created there and bring home to work on and a copy of PT11 might be in the future, JUST for that reason.  Like I said, I am totally stoked with Sonar, but it looks like I might have to "give in" and be a little more flexible with what DAW I might have to use.
It looks like owning X3, that I might have some stuff to offer as well, that PT doesn't excel in.  That's some good news too.
2014/05/23 18:15:04
Anderton
mixmkr
Wow...great replies.  Thx Craig, as I am coming from a 2"/console background, and what I've seen didn't seem so strange.  I LOVE Sonar and can't dream of switching, but I think I'm going to have some opportunities to work at other places that run PT11.  Plus, I can see doing stuff created there and bring home to work on and a copy of PT11 might be in the future, JUST for that reason.  Like I said, I am totally stoked with Sonar, but it looks like I might have to "give in" and be a little more flexible with what DAW I might have to use.
It looks like owning X3, that I might have some stuff to offer as well, that PT doesn't excel in.  That's some good news too.




You need Pro Tools to read Pro Tools project files. Not sure if you can use OMF to transfer but that's iffy anyway. However, with all due respect to PT, what I would do at PT studios was track with it then grab the WAV files as soon as possible and continue the project in Sonar. A lot of this was to overcome major PT limitations that have been mitigated since then, but now Sonar has progressed as well, so it offers tools that weren't available when I was grabbing those PT files.
 
If all DAWs disappeared tomorrow except for one, any one, I'd still be able to make music. I just find that the process of creating music from start to finish goes faster for me with Sonar. I have Sonar tweaked to where it is a part of the actual songwriting process. That's why I've been so prolific lately (at least by my standards), as my YouTube channel will attest. I don't write songs anymore and then record them; it's all one process. I'll be talking about specific techniques along those lines during my [shameless plug] workshop at Gearfest on June 7th. It's in a slot opposite Jason Bonham talking about Led Zeppelin so I suspect there will be plenty of time for individual instruction 
2014/05/23 18:35:18
mixmkr
Yeah...I'd just would carry around a hard drive or thumb drive and not deal with file conversions, etc.  That's why having PT at home as well, would be easiest.  Then no conversion when going back to the studio also. Thanks for bringing that up though.

Jason who ??  :-D
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