Soundblend
I want a Pro DAW in a tiny version with pro plugins ( Fx's ), without all the huge librarys, demos etc
is that clear now then ;-)

 
Not really. The cost would not be less as Craig explained. The loop library is a non-issue, you are not repurchasing it with the upgrade and it is an optional download and install. The same is true with the second largest package, DimPro but again bandwidth is not an issue. The install size of the DAW is a matter of running the advanced install option to skip the plug-ins you don't want.
 
So it appears what you want is a more expensive upgrade tailored to your exact download/install requirements so you can avoid running the advanced install option.

I caused a bit of a controversy a while back regarding this topic but it was a very different approach. It seems you want specific plugs that you want to use which is very subjective and really is, as scook said, the "a la carte" approach and you seem to be suggesting the concept to cover new purchases.
 
What I suggested and still think would be a good idea is Sonar Producer Lite UPGRADE. It would only be for existing Producer customers so they could keep the core program current (without losing their Producer owner status) and retain/use the plugins they already got with previous version.
 
Applying this to the X3 release what you would have gotten with this upgrade (and you would have had to own at least X2 Producer to qualify) is Sonar X3 Producer with all of it's functions and absolutely NO extras. You WOULD however still be able to use all the plugins that came with your previous versions.
 
This way you get all bug fixes, improvements and be able to qualify for future Producer upgrades at the Producer owner price (either the next FULL version or this hypothetical LITE version).
 
That said... I didn't think that I NEEDED Addictive Drums because I own BFD Eco and was going to upgrade to BFD2 but Addictive Drums sounds awesome so it is useful to me. I didn't think that I NEEDED the Blue Tubes plugs but after playing with them and realizing that they model things that are standard studio equipment I would have wanted to buy third party anyway AND the limiter is way better than Boost11 for my stuff. I didn't think that I NEEDED Melodyne because I already had V-Vocal if I absolutely wanted pitch correction and had already been looking at Izotope Nectar as part of a bundle but V-V is notoriously messed up and Nectar is expensive AND Izotope has that crazy Audio to MIDI stuff going... etc.
 
So still... I really didn't NEED those things technically but holy crap are they going to make my life easier because I do not own a lot of plugs. I'm glad I have them now and really all that stuff might have saved me hundreds of dollars. However for those who already have it all or only use specific things and TRULY don't need anything I think the Producer "Lite" UPGRADE (only for existing Producer customers who paid for the ticket into the big leagues) would be a nice gesture for loyal customers who really don't need the extras.
 
$75 for such an upgrade would be reasonable. Perhaps even the old $100 upgrade price.
 
I'd say there's my two cents but I need those pennies for delicious salty pork products. ;-p

I don't use many of the 'goodies' that came with X3. For example I already have several drum kits (BFD3, Battery, Kontakt's Abbey Road series, etc.) so I don't need (or want for that matter) Addictive Drums. But from what I read there are many users on this forum that are using AD and that are totally stoked that it was included...and so I'm glad Cakewalk worked the deal out where it could be included. 
 
By including additional tools I believe Cakewalk is trying to broaden their user base, which equates to greater income, which equates to higher quality development in the core product (the coding of the VST3 and inclusion of ARA technologies come to mind).
 
I didn't install AD because I don't need it but it doesn't hurt me in any way to have the option to have it. so I guess I really don't see the point behind the OP request for a different distribution model. Just my opinion though.
 
Regards,

Are sure, you understand me !
I am not here to argue about this or get personal,
 
I'm not here to argue either Jan...a lot of people will just click the first button without doing a custom install...I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that.
 

Anderton
The pricing would make Sonar non-competitive for people who use more plug-ins than you. There are so many Sonar elements I use that aren't on your list - Dimension Pro and Rapture, all the Sonitus plug-ins, VX64 and PX64, TH2, Perfect Space for convolution, the Tempo Delay for dance mixes, Classic Phaser, a lot of the Blue Tube effects, Session Drummer because it's so easy to make my own kits, etc. If I had to buy each one of those separately on top of the version you foresee, the price would be way more than Sonar Producer. And I don't use True Pianos or Studio Instruments, so your version would still make me pay for things I don't use.
 
There are economies of scale from quantity pricing. My gut feeling is that the Sonar version you want is missing lots of elements that other people use all the time, and that its price wouldn't be much less than, say, Studio Edition which is expandable in many ways. Forcing people to buy what they use at "one-off" pricing would make Cakewalk very unpopular with its customers.
 
The only reason we're able to have tools like XLN and Melodyne in a $150 upgrade is because Cakewalk can go to companies and negotiate a low price based on quantity. Smaller quantities = higher prices. Since you wouldn't save much money, if any, then you can get the version you want simply by not installing what you don't want to use.

Well most of the people here got Sonar Producer, and they still buy huge amounts of Vst's and VSTi's
also Library's etc from 3rd part seller / developer, and that is fine, you still use a huge amount of Money

Why are people buying 3rd party plugins, synths etc !
Cause they'r not satisfied with what they got in the package they buy'd in the first place, just admit it. ;-)

This is an indication for me that the stuff Shipped with the DAW(s), is not ( good enough )
in the ear of the user ...

So how can we ever be satisfied ?

Tell me... many got prob 100 + vst Equalizer's, do whoever that own that, really do know they'r plugin's
and use em, all of em, not to mention compressors, gates, limiters and so on further.

If a EQ was good enough, you may have 2 EQ in total, and you would know it like your brother or sister
and how they perform and act in every way, you would never need a replacement for it right !

Then we have the G.A.S syndrome, thinking ahh this look very promising, i want something new
then ask your self, do you need it, why do you need it, will it cover what i intend to use it for
at all aspects of sound ? 

Me personal is looking hard to find what i want to use, i just want 2  : EQ, compressors
and 1 limiter a Reverb and a delay as basic tools. i want to be satisfied with the product and know it
and that i can rely it will deliver every time i use the plugins.

In regards to the "Just upgrade to Studio" argument... the main issue I have with that is you lose your Producer customer status. If you choose Studio for one year then want to take Producer the next year, as far as I know, you are stuck paying the Studio user upgrade price. For me... well I'm a new guy so tough lumps for me but some of the dude's (and dudette's) who have been buying the flagship for 10-20 years... well that's a bit of a drag. I would even go as far to say you would only qualify for the Producer "Lite" version I suggested if you had been a Producer owner for 3 release cycles or more.
 
But whatever... I'm a wee bit crazy. lulz

Never say "never"! At one time I thought I would never use any of the loops and one shots that come bundled with Sonar, and even considered getting rid, but over the last couple of months I've found myself using a few of them in a couple of projects! Same with SI Bass...I'd always pooh-poohed this because I have Trilian/Scarbee basses etc, but recently heard Danny Danzi rave about it's sound so I checked it out and now I'm glad I have it!

Hard drive space isn't that much of an issue nowadays. I'm quite happy to see my drive populated with stuff that I'm unlikely to use, because one day it might just come in handy. And if ever a situation arises where I really really need the space and have no way of buying more, I'll just delete it. I'm really not seeing a problem here.

Beepster
 
What I suggested and still think would be a good idea is Sonar Producer Lite UPGRADE. It would only be for existing Producer customers so they could keep the core program current (without losing their Producer owner status) and retain/use the plugins they already got with previous version.
 
$75 for such an upgrade would be reasonable. Perhaps even the old $100 upgrade price.
 

I see where you're coming from, but the issue is that it takes a LOT more work to develop the core program and add functionality like VST3 and ARA integration than it does to license plug-ins. Add in bug testing and QC, and that's where the upgrade money goes. The "goodies" aren't free, of course, but I don't think the upgrade you envision would be possible for $75. And even if it was $100, I think a lot of people would stretch the extra $50 to get hundreds of dollars worth of plug-ins. You need to use only one or two to justify the extra expense.

Just select "custom" during installation and pick only what you want. You can always rerun the installer to install other things later.
 
Don't need loops? don't download the separate install. You can always do so later, or download load it but don't install it. The choice is yours.
 
I for one love that extra goodies. Its like everything else, you never know what you'll like if you don't try it at least once and many things are discovered by accident. I always schedule "playtime" and select a few plugins to spend time messing around with. Its a great way for me to blow off steam and learn something in the process.
 
 
 
 

Soundblend

Anderton
The pricing would make Sonar non-competitive for people who use more plug-ins than you. There are so many Sonar elements I use that aren't on your list - Dimension Pro and Rapture, all the Sonitus plug-ins, VX64 and PX64, TH2, Perfect Space for convolution, the Tempo Delay for dance mixes, Classic Phaser, a lot of the Blue Tube effects, Session Drummer because it's so easy to make my own kits, etc. If I had to buy each one of those separately on top of the version you foresee, the price would be way more than Sonar Producer. And I don't use True Pianos or Studio Instruments, so your version would still make me pay for things I don't use.
 
There are economies of scale from quantity pricing. My gut feeling is that the Sonar version you want is missing lots of elements that other people use all the time, and that its price wouldn't be much less than, say, Studio Edition which is expandable in many ways. Forcing people to buy what they use at "one-off" pricing would make Cakewalk very unpopular with its customers.
 
The only reason we're able to have tools like XLN and Melodyne in a $150 upgrade is because Cakewalk can go to companies and negotiate a low price based on quantity. Smaller quantities = higher prices. Since you wouldn't save much money, if any, then you can get the version you want simply by not installing what you don't want to use.

Well most of the people here got Sonar Producer, and they still buy huge amounts of Vst's and VSTi's
also Library's etc from 3rd part seller / developer, and that is fine, you still use a huge amount of Money

Why are people buying 3rd party plugins, synths etc !
Cause they'r not satisfied with what they got in the package they buy'd in the first place, just admit it. ;-)

This is an indication for me that the stuff Shipped with the DAW(s), is not good enough

So how can we ever be satisfied ?

Tell me... many got prob 100 + vst Equalizer's, do whoever that own that, really do know they'r plugin's
and use em, all of em, not to mention compressors, gates, limiters and so on further.

If a EQ was good enough, you may have 2 EQ in total, and you would know it like your brother or sister
and how they perform and act in every way, you would never need a replacement for it right !

Then we have the G.A.S syndrome, thinking ahh this look very promising, i want something new
then ask your self, do you need it, why do you need it, will it cover what i intend to use it for
at all aspects of sound ? 

Me personal is looking hard to find what i want to use, i just want 2  : EQ, compressors
and 1 limiter a Reverb and a delay as basic tools. i want to be satisfied with the product and know it
and that i can rely it will deliver every time i use the plugins.

Aside from the limiter the included PC modules cover all that but in your OP you tossed in a ton of synths, VST's and other gack that you specifically want. That does not a stripped down version make. I don't really want TTS or some of that other stuff but you do. See where this turns into a problem.
 
A stripped down version should be a stripped down version. Not a stripped down version plus "everything I personally like".
 
As far as the loops and stuff... those are kind of just there. I don't think they cost Cake anything at this point and aren't really making them any money. They just offer them to you if you want and they are easily ignored. It's just something cool to play around with if you are so inclined. I actually used them to make my first song with X1 to learn my way around a little. Now I can make my own loops.