dubdisciple
Let me make sure I understand you. You would rather pay more just so that you save a little time downloading stuff you don't have to install? A la carte is always costlier. The value aspect of Sonar totally goes out the window and you basically have people buying basic version and lots I of third party plugins.

I want a Sonar with the  ( best FX's)  Cakewalk can support
ill rater have a few great plugins to my ears and pay for that, than loads what i never use
if its from Cakewalk or a 3rd party developer, that don't matter and that will be cheaper then :

than buying many new plugins every year for 20 years... count that cost.

Soundblend
 
 
Why are people buying 3rd party plugins, synths etc !
Cause they'r not satisfied with what they got in the package they buy'd in the first place, just admit it. ;-)

Have you considered that people are satisfied with what comes with the package, but have specialized needs for specific types of projects? For example if you are doing film soundtracks you need heavy-duty orchestral libraries. Quality ones are very expensive, including something like East West or Kontakt in Sonar would raise the price astronomically. If you're doing dance music you might want something like Diva, which requires lots of CPU and makes no sense for someone doing hard rock...who might want a fantastic B3 emulation which is useless to the person doing dance music.
 
Someone doing voiceover or broadcast work might want noise reduction or restoration plug-ins that are expensive and of no use to the casual user. Hip-hop producers will want large loop libraries. And so on. 
 
Does the fact that all these people have different requirements mean they're not satisfied with what's in Sonar? Of course not. It simply means that different people have very different needs and expectations of what they want from a DAW. The flaw in your logic is that it assumes that you are representative of all users.

Soundblend

I want a Sonar with the  ( best FX's)  Cakewalk can support
ill rater have a few great plugins to my ears and pay for that, than loads what i never use
if its from Cakewalk or a 3rd party developer, that don't matter and that will be cheaper then :

than buying many new plugins every year for 20 years... count that cost.

As I explained, your approach would end up costing more. The key point you keep forgetting is you say "to my ears." Your ears are not the same as everyone else's. Just because you don't use something should not be a reason to raise prices for everyone else.

Anderton

Beepster
 
What I suggested and still think would be a good idea is Sonar Producer Lite UPGRADE. It would only be for existing Producer customers so they could keep the core program current (without losing their Producer owner status) and retain/use the plugins they already got with previous version.
 
$75 for such an upgrade would be reasonable. Perhaps even the old $100 upgrade price.
 

I see where you're coming from, but the issue is that it takes a LOT more work to develop the core program and add functionality like VST3 and ARA integration than it does to license plug-ins. Add in bug testing and QC, and that's where the upgrade money goes. The "goodies" aren't free, of course, but I don't think the upgrade you envision would be possible for $75. And even if it was $100, I think a lot of people would stretch the extra $50 to get hundreds of dollars worth of plug-ins. You need to use only one or two to justify the extra expense.

Indeed and the choices Cake makes in regards to what gets included are definitely quality ones. I mean TH2 is revolutionary to my personal work and as I mentioned I didn't think I needed the Blue Tubes stuff or AD but they sure are nice to have.
 
However for some of us starving artist types that extra $50-75 wouldn't be going towards more plugs... it would be going towards actually food or rent... yanno? Sad and, I guess if I were more prideful man, embarrassing to say that but that can be a reality. Also I did follow up with a potential caveat for the "Lite" upgrade qualification where perhaps you need to have consistently bought the Producer upgrade for a certain number of years. Kind of like a preferred customer discount/option.
 
As I said... when I brought it up initially it was somewhat controversial and I don't really want to revisit that unpleasantness but that was my personal take on the whole "strip down" issue. What is being suggested here seems unreasonable to me but my ideas were also deemed unreasonable by some so it proves the point... you can't always get what you want...
 
but if you try sometimes... doot doo doo... bleepity bloooooooo...
 

Beepster
 
Aside from the limiter the included PC modules cover all that but in your OP you tossed in a ton of synths, VST's and other gack that you specifically want. That does not a stripped down version make. I don't really want TTS or some of that other stuff but you do. See where this turns into a problem.
 
A stripped down version should be a stripped down version. Not a stripped down version plus "everything I personally like".
 
As far as the loops and stuff... those are kind of just there. I don't think they cost Cake anything at this point and aren't really making them any money. They just offer them to you if you want and they are easily ignored. It's just something cool to play around with if you are so inclined. I actually used them to make my first song with X1 to learn my way around a little. Now I can make my own loops.

For me Sonar could had less FX plugins than what i mention in the first post
just a basic good Compressor, Eq , Limiter, Reverb and Delay, that would be good.

For the Synths, i could get rid of all, if Cakewalk could manage to bring along
a great GM VSTi , that would be more then enough.

That is stripped down, and i really would like that.

Beepster, your request is not unreasonable because it doesn't depend on having an entire release being made to accommodate your specific needs. If Cakewalk was a bigger company, it might be possible but they have their hands full developing the products they already have. Also, although in the immortal words of Herman Cain "I don't have the facts to back me up," based on my experience with multiple software companies over the years I highly doubt the difference would be $75...$50 at the outside, and maybe less. I realize that's not a trivial amount of money, but hey, it's less than what two reels of tape used to cost...

Soundblend
 
 
For me Sonar could had less FX plugins than what i mention in the first post
just a basic great compressor, eq , Limiter, reverb and delay would be good.

For the Synths, i could get rid of all, if Cakewalk could manage to bring along
a great GM VSTi , that would be more then enough.

That is stripped down, and i really would like that.
 

I think the bottom line is you need to realize you represent a minority of users, and companies stay in business by trying to accommodate the majority of users. Accommodating the majority is also what allows keeping prices down.

Anderton
 
 
I think the bottom line is you need to realize you represent a minority of users, and companies stay in business by trying to accommodate the majority of users. Accommodating the majority is also what allows keeping prices down.

Yes i am probably in the minority group, regarding my wishes ;-)
but still for me it is a happy thought, but it will prob never come true
so i guess i need to go with the flow like everyone else 

Anderton
Beepster, your request is not unreasonable because it doesn't depend on having an entire release being made to accommodate your specific needs. If Cakewalk was a bigger company, it might be possible but they have their hands full developing the products they already have. Also, although in the immortal words of Herman Cain "I don't have the facts to back me up," based on my experience with multiple software companies over the years I highly doubt the difference would be $75...$50 at the outside, and maybe less. I realize that's not a trivial amount of money, but hey, it's less than what two reels of tape used to cost...

Well the first full release I was involved with when I was a teenager cost over ten grand (paid for by the label). The next one I did about five years later was comped by a different label guy who happened to have access to a studio BUT I had to pay for half the manufacturing and hand over half the discs (band sells half/label sells half everyone walks with whatever they make).
 
So definitely a lot less expensive now. When I actually came up with this line of thinking in regards to the cheap upgrade it was due to the whole X2 thing. I was... well... a little disgruntled shall we say. Even if I can't afford the next upgrade right away I'll still be able to work because as I keep blathering on about X3 is everything it should be and as far as I'm concerned Cakewalk has vindicated themselves in my eyes.
 
This is what usually happens to me. I make painfully calculated decisions about things, those decisions put me through a bunch of angst and weirdness but in the long run work out for the best.
 
Freaky that.
 
;-p

My apologies if this has already been stated.
 
Sonar is customizable as far as install are concerned. It's called "custom install". There is an option for it.