Two things inspired me to start this topic. First, a post from Mod Bod in another thread (I didn't want to hijack the thread, and it's edited for brevity):
 

Mod Bod
I want to use SONAR on a regular basis again but there is this gap between us that stops me dead in my tracks...Case in point, today as I tried to set up a template project, I quickly noticed and remembered that the maximum number of 3rd party plugins I could see in the Console view FX bin was three and then I had to scroll to see further than that.  I thought maybe there will be some way to expand the FX bin size.  Sorry Charlie, can't do that.
 
Another similar issue is the Sends module where the maximum number of sends you can see is two.  This is no bueno with complex mixes that might also include Cue Mixes.

I've been in Cakewalk forums for (I'm guessing) over 20 years so I know the choruses of "Just use something else, if you don't like what we like" will be forthcoming and I have done just that.   But it wasn't because I wanted to.

The other reason for starting this thread is I've done a few projects lately with a gazillion tracks, buses, and effects. One in particular is a Construction Kit with one track for what will be each file in the kit. While the file size isn't huge (under 1GB for now), the interface demands are major as there are dozens of folders, each containing multiple loops and variations, and incorporating MIDI and audio. In addition to the "finished" versions of files, all the source files must be managed as well. Having generally worked on much smaller projects, the workflow I had used in the past was not appropriate.
 
I know that workflow is very personal and also project-dependent. What works fantastically for one person could be useless for another, so please, no need for the "that wouldn't work for me comments" because I'm describing what works for ME for a particularly complex type of project, and those who have similar needs might be able to benefit.
 
There are four key elements.
 
Track View vs. Console
 
I use the Track View for tracking and arranging. TV allows seeing as many sends and effects as you want by extending the track height or width. Once the sends and effects are set up, I seldom need to access them when mixing so I spend much more time in the Console view. At that point I don't need access to I/O or gain, so at least there's space for the four sends and assignable controls for the FX so my most needed sends can be visible.
 
Auto-Zoom
 
This is key for TV, because if you really do have something like a dozen sends and effects, you need at least some track height. Auto-zoom really helps in this respect, because you can click a track and see everything at once for that track while the others remain shortened yet visible.
 
Screensets
 
If you don't have a huge number of effects but your main concern is sends, you can set up a wide track header so you can see rows of multiple sends, and not have too high a track height so you can see sends for multiple tracks simultaneously. Track folders help here too, because I usually need to see associated sends - e.g., all sends for vocals, all sends for drums, all sends for guitar, etc. I can usually see all the sends for all the tracks in a folder by extending the track header width. 
 
The D Keyboard Shortcut 
 
This is what lets me bounce back and forth easily between the TV and Console as the piece transitions from creation/arranging to mixing. If I'm in Console View and need a quick overview, D (or sometimes a screenset change) does the job.
 
Once I figured this out, I was surprised at how easy it was for me to manage huge projects. I really could not have done the equivalent with any of the other programs I own. Granted, it REALLY helps to have two monitors, but still, I've used a similar approach with a laptop and while not optimum, it's still workable.
 
I hope someone finds this useful.
 
P.S. About touch...I've had a chance to use the touch version of Sonar. It's a whole different animal, because you can set the touch screen on your desk at an angle, just like a real mixer. Compared to using conventional monitors, mice, etc. the best thing about touch is you can use both hands - one hand to scroll and find, the other to handle the mouse for precise operations. I was skeptical at first, but quickly realized how much touch restores the "feel" of working on an analog console - as much because of the workflow as the fact that you're touching things. Not too long from now, I think people will marvel that we managed to get any music done at all using an interface designed for entering numbers in a spreadsheet.
 
 
 

Bumping because I'm kind of curious why there are 94 views and no comments. I guess everyone either thought "Duh, that's obvious," "I don't care," or "Wow, that's really a dumb post" 

I will post a comment if you wish. I rarely use the console view. Using it more now because of the ProChannel. Now that I think about it, it would be handy to have the pre/post fx bin button, clipping indicator and power button in the track header and if there needs to be a fourth, put the interleave back. Then the console view would be as redundant as it was pre-X series for my purposes.

I find the limited amount of sends viewable in the TV a bit confusing at times now that I'm using more. Like if I happened to scroll down a bit to get at one and leave it that way it's easy to forget that you are no longer looking at 1 and 2 if you aren't paying attention. Also it's easy to forget about extra sends on tracks that aren't currently shown. That's all just things I need to pay closer attention for but it would be nice to hit a key binding or something in the CV to show all sends modules just to see what's what as the project progresses.
 
One thing I just thought of is for those who use a lot of sends... perhaps getting a controller specifically for sends would be a good solution. Like one of those things with a ton of dial strips. Set up a template with as many sends on each track as you are likely to use, send them nowhere and or turn them all the way down (until you are ready to use them) then map them all to the controller. Then the hardware becomes your "Sends View".
 
Meh... just a thought.

Ive been on this number of sends since they took it away in the Sonar X series!!!! I was happy in the earlier versions with the 4 sends being able to be seen and now they regressed to 2 sends being able to be seen!!
 
As Nancy Kerrigan said "WHY!" "WHY" "WHY!!!!"
 
Dont even get me started on the scrolling up and down with the mouse in the track view. Do not get me STARTED!!!!!!
CJ

 

Anderton
so please, no need for the "that wouldn't work for me comments" because I'm describing what works for ME.....
 

 

Anderton
Bumping because I'm kind of curious why there are 94 views and no comments.......

 
Answering your own questions there I think !
 
As for touch, regardless of screen size or angle, it's still going to get covered with fingerprints and smears in no time at all, so I don't see the attraction personally.

Sonar should have a project plan view (preferrably interactive). Call it Meta View.
This would show the entire structure (components and plumbing) of the project at a glance.
I envision clickable icons which expand to show details for things like I/O,FX bins and so on.
Lines connecting the icons would show the routing of tracks, sends buses,etc). 
Treat MIDI the same way.
If you create a pencil and paper plan of your project, you would most likely end up with a schematic very similar to what I have in mind.
All the necessary info is already present within Sonar to do this.
Most of the graphical components already exist in C++ and the methods to implement the dragging/docking as well.
 
It would be nice to be able to manipulate the Meta View also ( the interactive part).
Right click a track icon (named Vocals) in the Meta View... choose add send.. drag the resulting line to a bus icon.
You could set a filter to only show sends for one (any or all) tracks. It would show the send  connections.
Click the FX icon for a track, it expands to show the FX. Click on one FX and the FX control window pops up.
No sound from the project? The problem would be obvious since there is no path connecting the track to an output.
 
Craig would be able to view his complex project(s) in toto on one screen.
 
The possibilities are endless.
You get the idea.
 

I've thought about the Project Routing Map idea before too and it would be very helpful. It would probably be really screwy to code it so it is interactive (like being able to fiddle with routing and whatnot) but just being able to view the routing of an entire project on one page or perhaps a moveable map for large projects if necessary would be very cool... BUT, make it printable so that way once you reach the mixing stage and you have everything more or less set up how you want you can print it out and reference it while you work.
 
And perhaps have two different views. One is a visual graph and another that is raw data on each track/bus like the track/board sheets engineers use to keep back in the old days. Yeah... that would be sweet.

A routing matrix like Reaper's would be helpful.

Craig,
 
Thanks for at least taking the time to dialog about this issue.  It's not one that I randomly came up with as a thing to complain about.  It's one that slows me down and makes me give up.  
 
Yes, I use the TV and I am a "Shift D, Shift B, D" kind of guy.  Heck, I'm a "Ctrl-Shift-F" kind of guy (Don't look this one up, its a custom shortcut that shows and sizes selected tracks.

I use a 57" LED monitor and two 22" HD monitors so screen real estate isn't driving things.  It's being able to quickly see an overview of the entire project.  I once primarily used the sends for headphone mixes.  Not so much now since my RME soundcard takes care of that.  But I am constantly going to sends to control multiple delays, reverbs, parallel effects and I need to see what channels are flowing into my busses.

Cakewalk does a great job of displaying the minutia of a project but I spend my time wanting to see the overall picture and to move to a track and make a change with as little scrolling as possible.  I believe the developers have a vision of everyone with a touch screen monitor and maybe someday I will embrace that and the heavens will open up and a glorious light will shine down on me and I will become aware of the errors of my past.

I think that if they could retrace their steps and grab a few things they left behind in the pre-X series versions, it would solve a few of my requirements.  Here is a crude version of two channel strips with changes that would float my boat.  I don't expect both channels to be displayed independently.  They are shown to demonstrate being able to drag the lower borders of a block (FX inserts and Sends) and resize them to show more or less information.  Right clicking a widget would allow a fly out window to appear for panning and Pre/Post adjustments.  Status buttons on sends are really unnecessary I have found if the use of color signifies the status of a slider so they could be eliminated as well.  If a Send is activated it turns gray if it is post fader, if it is pre fader it turns blue, if it is inactive it remains black.  Status changes could be changed by right mouse clicks and a drop down or cycling through the states.

I completely understand that if the user base doesn't use the Console then why spend the resources on it?  There are other programs out there with good mixer views.  However, they don't do some things as well as SONAR does and that's the reason that I come back to see if I can work things out.