Why is it that most people say, "don't use to much" when, in most videos I ever saw, they use it quite a bit?
 
I recently watched a video on mixing in Mixbus where the guy mixed a country song and he used up to -6db, sometimes more, of gain reduction and I thought it was making a better difference. Of course, I have old ears so that has to be taken into consideration. 

Recently, I imported a project into Mixbus and was a little more judicious with gain reduction and went to -3db or -4db of gain reduction and I think I got better results as well. Then you get those that say, "it's over processed". (wow! I just noticed that our typing is being saved as we type. lol!) I don't get those that say that things are over processed. I've noticed that you can isolate things better this way and make the mix more clear.
 
Here is an example of what I did different. Track 1 is mixed in Sonar X2. Track 2 is the same only I exported the stems into Mixbus.
 
Track 1
Track 2
 
The only think I haven't fixed in track 2 is there bass seems to be doing something weird when it pumps out the pedal tone.
 
I would love to hear any thoughts from you pro guys about compression and it's uses.

I'm not a "pro" but I can tell you that use of *any* effect is completely subjective. No one can tell you what sounds better.
 
What you can do, though, is discuss how to use compression (or any effect) to obtain similar results to a reference track.
 
Track 1 - sounds good, although I think the guitars are a little loud, but that's a (subjective) mix issue.
Track 2 - sounds about the same, only maybe a few db louder. I think I hear compression artifacts. If that's what you're going for, then great.
 
 

Now that I know more about compression and what it sounds like after playing around with all the gizmos in Sonar I think that over the years the "smashed" sound is what has become popular... especially in the world of modern country music (if we are limiting the discussion to actual recorded instruments). To me it's too much and unrealistic. For that style of music I'd rather it sound like the artists are playing in front of me... not crawling around inside my brain.
 
In my usual vein of music (metal/hardcore) I think the same thing has happened and is part of the reason why I'm not really a big fan of a lot of newer acts. It's just squished and flattened too much. I don't hear the drum heads vibrating, the tubes rattling or the chaos bouncing around the room. There is a significant amount of "whooshing" and "clicking".
 
However the old style washed out or distant sound of old recordings isn't great either. Not that I've actually been able to successfully achieve it yet but I'd like my stuff to sound like a good balance of both. In your face but not inside your brain. Like watching an unmic'd band in a small club through their amps/acoustic drums and the vox going through a small PA... except everything is clearer and more defined as if you were wearing high quality ear plugs but even clearer.... if that makes sense.
 
Cheers.

Hi Guitarpima
First thing, there are some giant differences between those two mixes...compression aside, mix 2 is significantly louder and the frequency balance, instrument levels and panning are all different. They're actually sorta tough to compare...
 
Re compression and Gain Reduction in general, imho -6db of GR isn't really that much for some things. I'd hesitate if I saw that much on the 2, but for a lead vox in pop/rock (particularly if it's a dynamic singer) it wouldn't strike me as out of hand. That said, you should also keep in mind the action range of the compressor...a compressor showing -12db of GR but only ever falling to -9db is really only doing 3db of compression, though where that action range falls certainly matters, particularly for some compressors. Also, it depends on the result you want. If you're just trying to shave peaks, 3 or 4db of GR at the peaky parts is probably fine. If you're trying to do overall leveling for voice, it depends on the singer but I've seen is much as -10 or -12 for pop/rock at the climax of a vox track, particularly if you're running multiple comps in serial (as has become the fashion)...you start adding up the GR on 2 or 3 comps all doing 2-4 db of GR and you start getting a whole lot of gain reduction. If you're trying to slam room mics or drum busses, you can really get crazy. Same for fast attack/fast release compression to make a bass guitar distort.
 
One way or another, neither mix sounded particularly "over produced" or "over compressed" to me, but opinions vary on this stuff.
 
Dean

I recorded the 2 tracks into Wave lab and ran the Global Analyzer. 
Track 1 is average RMS 15 -Max 11 min 40 
Track 2 is Average RMS 17  Max 8  min 40  
 
So it would seem you have applied a little compression and gained a few Db in the loudness wars.   I myself aim for around 14-15 average and peaks at 8 so track 2 in in the ballpark. 
But it could be pushed further because what is also happening is your drum shots are huge peaks. They are what is sucking up your overhead. 
Not only that a spectrograph shows all activity centred around 120 hz with nothing much showing over 300hz at all,, SO the song comes across as being quiet even though it's has the correct RMS level,,, in other words,, common issue of controlling the low end. The low end is so overpowering it pushed the compressor which then squashes your guitars and vocals. 

Thanks for the replies. Please keep them coming. Any thoughts are helpful not only to me, but everyone.
 
Cactus Music, could you elaborate about the low end comment. I'm not sure I understand but it sounds like what I hear when I hear the low E pedal.
 
BTW - as mentioned above, track 1 is a Sonar mix and 2 I imported the stems into Mixbus. Overall level was not thought of at the time of the exports. If I start a thread like this in the future, I'll be more meticulous.

I was just pointing out why you are hearing pumping from the low end. Your low end at 100Hz is peaking,
But the rest of the spectrum is way down, So when the bass hits the compressor it squashes the over all sound, A multi band compressor will not do this,
But first it is better to balance your mix, Use a hi pass filter on your bass/ kick tracks.  The reason you originally asked if it is OK to use compression, You only need it to control what cannot be controlled with regular volume and Eq. First balance your mix, then use compression. 
Compression can also be used for an effect. It can be used on an entire mix but will not be as usefull as simply balancing the mix first. A multi band ( LP64)  is what I use for mastering a mix,,it will tame any low end without compromising the mid/ hi's. 

Thanks Cactus Music. I appreciate the info.
 
Since it's not hard to add effects later, I start again. Although I usually do start that way but in the interest of learning Mixbus, I may have rushed through it. I'm still using Sonar for recording and editing but I'm liking MB for the mixing.

Guitarpima
Why is it that most people say, "don't use to much" when, in most videos I ever saw, they use it quite a bit?

Because most videos are mixing pop music in a style that is heavily influenced by the sound that is actually popular as opposed to what is advocated by "the experts". What sounds good is always subjective and until the preferred sound by the masses of what sounds good matches what audio engineers deem good this discreprency will continue.

I think that is because of the "turn it up" generation. I fit that description. Now I wonder why I ever put my ears through that.