mixmkr
Yeah...more power to them.  Except the ones that get big headed and become rock star rappers after a 3 week honeymoon of having their friends ooh...and aah...over Sony Music created loops.

I'm not knocking the program or even the end result.  It's the "want it now" mentality that seems to surface.

Honestly, this stereotype is beyond dated. Modern popular rap stopped being loop based long ago. You would be very hard pressed to find a rapper who is a star now based on sony loops. In fact their whole catalog seems aimed at people who dont actually listen to rap or have not listened to it in the last 15 years. Even the few rap producers I have encountered who use Acid use it for its ease of use in chopping their own samples. I just peeped at billboards rap chart and it is absolutely dominated by synth and 808 heavy production.

furry muff, but i do think "walk before you run" is a good idea, and i mean sonar has so many functions that there's no way everyone uses all of them, so finding pout what you want/need before spending bucks just seems like common sense

dubdisciple

mixmkr
Yeah...more power to them.  Except the ones that get big headed and become rock star rappers after a 3 week honeymoon of having their friends ooh...and aah...over Sony Music created loops.

I'm not knocking the program or even the end result.  It's the "want it now" mentality that seems to surface.

Honestly, this stereotype is beyond dated. Modern popular rap stopped being loop based long ago. You would be very hard pressed to find a rapper who is a star now based on sony loops. In fact their whole catalog seems aimed at people who dont actually listen to rap or have not listened to it in the last 15 years. Even the few rap producers I have encountered who use Acid use it for its ease of use in chopping their own samples. I just peeped at billboards rap chart and it is absolutely dominated by synth and 808 heavy production.

so why give a dvd's worth of loops with the app?

montezuma

John
You forgot to mention MIDI! Outstanding post Craig. 
 
 
Also I would add of all the DAWs out there I believe Sonar to be the easiest to figure out. In Cubase you don't record to a track you have to setup inputs and record to them.  Logic as I recall was all about the "environment". It was everything.  Don't understand that and you will be lost. Reaper is one big gigantic menu.
 
Sonar acts like a Windows program and is simple in how it has things organized.
 
 
 
 

Studio One is pretty easy to use...easier than Sonar I find...although some may say it's more a toy than a pro DAW. Not sure why you turned the opening post into a passive aggressive DAW showdown though. The theme of the opening post is about how daunting it is to have so much at your fingertips. In a breath, you've gone and embroiled Cubase, Logic and Reaper in a potential dick measuring competition when all you had to do was say...haha...yeah...it's a jungle out there in DAWland.

Studio One wasn't around when I was learning Logic on the PC. I don't put Studio One in the same league as the above DAWs. Working with Cubase was also difficult for me. Sonar was not. That was my only point. 
 
And no it is not a jungle out there. I know what I wanted to say and I did. Too bad you found fault. I don't need someone to rewrite my posts. 

Good analogy, as that is an example of exactly what it is like.'
 
I been with Sonar since version 6 and do need to study it deeper.
 
With X1 it was like taking the console out and putting a new one in which included some additional rack FX.
 
I had resistance to changing the way I worked and my plugin collection was threatened as a poor purchase.
 
All unfounded as X3 is a package unto itself and ProCh is so great.
 
I second the video tutorials as I am still learning music and it is alot of hats to wear to produce it all yourself.
 
I can jot down an idea in an hour with X3, it is a lot of fun to scratch out  musical and arrangement ideas.
 
 
 
 
 
 

dubdisciple

mixmkr
Yeah...more power to them.  Except the ones that get big headed and become rock star rappers after a 3 week honeymoon of having their friends ooh...and aah...over Sony Music created loops.

I'm not knocking the program or even the end result.  It's the "want it now" mentality that seems to surface.

Honestly, this stereotype is beyond dated. Modern popular rap stopped being loop based long ago. You would be very hard pressed to find a rapper who is a star now based on sony loops. In fact their whole catalog seems aimed at people who dont actually listen to rap or have not listened to it in the last 15 years. Even the few rap producers I have encountered who use Acid use it for its ease of use in chopping their own samples. I just peeped at billboards rap chart and it is absolutely dominated by synth and 808 heavy production.

I'm thinking you're just getting defensive about rap music.  Actually my comment was describing the 14 yr old that after 3 weeks of making beatz, decided on HIS OWN, that he was a star.  Whether it's *current* or not is besides the point.  I'd be pretty surprised to find a musically and financially successful rapper, using stock loops from the Sony library....especially unaltered.  However, that IS exactly what I see in my neck of the woods, with the younger crowd nowadays....and kinda was my point.  The "fact" that they don't go thru the learning curve that Craig so described in a grand way, isn't a short cut to becoming better in this field.  In fact, I tend to think they're really missing out and are just doing the music to impress others...  which is better left to shred guitar players :-D

Anderton
...here's a little story.
 
It’s the early 90s, and you’re about to do your first album. Amazingly, you’re given a price of a mere $4,000 to record an album from start to finish—with unlimited studio time!—in a world-class recording facility. You can’t believe your good fortune.
 
You walk into the studio, and see two 48-track Sony DASH machine synched together for a whopping 96 tracks, feeding into a giant console with more channels than you can count. What’s more, there’s per-channel automation with moving faders and behind the console is a wall of rack mount gear with dozens of sophisticated signal processors. Even better, there are several guitar amps, cabinets, stomp boxes, and over 20 synthesizers and other keyboards sitting around to help flesh out your tracks further.
 
Of course, you’re thrilled...until the person who let you in says “Well, gotta go. Good luck!” And there you are, all by yourself, with a mountain of equipment you’ve never seen before. You’re not even sure where the on-off switch is.
 
Panic sets in. How can you possibly record, let alone be productive or inspired, under those circumstances?
 
Well, you can’t. But the studio scenario I’ve just described is almost exactly what you get with a Windows computer and Sonar X3. Panic sets in. How can you possibly record, let alone be productive, under those circumstances?
 
Well, you can’t, any more than you can walk into a music store, buy a guitar, and expect to play like Jimi Hendrix by next Tuesday. So it’s no wonder many people are flying blind. How any times have you seen threads like “This software sucks! It doesn’t record!”—until the person realized you need to record-enable a track first. What’s more, today’s musicians have to struggle with operating systems, latency, sample buffers, and more. How are you going to become an instant expert on something like how to apply EQ?
 
People used to accumulate knowledge over time. I see people with hundreds of plug-ins who haven’t mastered any of them. So learn one dynamics processor, one multiband EQ, and one reverb—you’re covered for 90% of your signal processing needs. Learn a program’s basics, like input and outputs. Eventually, you’ll figure out automation.
 
You don’t learn how to play an instrument in a day, a week, or even a year. So cut yourself some slack, and expect to take some time to learn how to “play” a virtual studio, too. It's not Sonar's fault, and it's not your fault. You're not trying to learn a program; you're trying to learn the equivalent of what used to be a multi-million dollar recording studio.

I remember freaking out on SSL G series manuals. And BTW the screen used for automation purposes was green. Nope no colour schemes available. Always using different desks as well. No use complaing about who moved your cheese you just got on with it. Let's not even talk about destructive editing. You never had it so good!

Anderton
...here's a little story.
 
It’s the early 90s, and you’re about to do your first album. Amazingly, you’re given a price of a mere $4,000 to record an album from start to finish—with unlimited studio time!—in a world-class recording facility. You can’t believe your good fortune.
 
You walk into the studio, and see two 48-track Sony DASH machine synched together for a whopping 96 tracks, feeding into a giant console with more channels than you can count. What’s more, there’s per-channel automation with moving faders and behind the console is a wall of rack mount gear with dozens of sophisticated signal processors. Even better, there are several guitar amps, cabinets, stomp boxes, and over 20 synthesizers and other keyboards sitting around to help flesh out your tracks further.
 
Of course, you’re thrilled...until the person who let you in says “Well, gotta go. Good luck!” And there you are, all by yourself, with a mountain of equipment you’ve never seen before. You’re not even sure where the on-off switch is.
 
Panic sets in. How can you possibly record, let alone be productive or inspired, under those circumstances?
 
Well, you can’t. But the studio scenario I’ve just described is almost exactly what you get with a Windows computer and Sonar X3. Panic sets in. How can you possibly record, let alone be productive, under those circumstances?
 
Well, you can’t, any more than you can walk into a music store, buy a guitar, and expect to play like Jimi Hendrix by next Tuesday. So it’s no wonder many people are flying blind. How any times have you seen threads like “This software sucks! It doesn’t record!”—until the person realized you need to record-enable a track first. What’s more, today’s musicians have to struggle with operating systems, latency, sample buffers, and more. How are you going to become an instant expert on something like how to apply EQ?
 
People used to accumulate knowledge over time. I see people with hundreds of plug-ins who haven’t mastered any of them. So learn one dynamics processor, one multiband EQ, and one reverb—you’re covered for 90% of your signal processing needs. Learn a program’s basics, like input and outputs. Eventually, you’ll figure out automation.
 
You don’t learn how to play an instrument in a day, a week, or even a year. So cut yourself some slack, and expect to take some time to learn how to “play” a virtual studio, too. It's not Sonar's fault, and it's not your fault. You're not trying to learn a program; you're trying to learn the equivalent of what used to be a multi-million dollar recording studio.

Epic Post ….you bring up some very good points and the tone of it overall seems to have a lot of encouragement 
 
as a guitarist / musician  who has spent a great deal of time ( in the past ) in some very well know recording studios in NYC and LA as a hired guitarist , I would like to bring up a couple of points that I hope aren't OT….
 
Just about every studio I ever set foot in had a full team of people that worked there 
ex.. ,    the studio  owner , buisness associates ( partners , producers  ) dedicated engineers and equipment maintenance personal ,  techs in training , gofhers , reception , ect ect ….
all of those people brought accumulated knowledge and experience to the table to help keep the studio running smoothly …
my point .. a lot happens behind the scenes even in the metaphoric studio you described and those are the hats we all have to wear as independents 
 
a little OT for a second , 
the biggest limiting factor that I keep having to deal with is not the learning curve itself when learning how to use the software tools I have already ….
I know what it's like to hang a do not disturb shingle on the woodshed …. 
I did that with the guitar many times over the years and still do 
The thing that causes me the most frustration with using a DAW for music production is something I hope to change in the near future ...I live in an apt with thin walls,  
I'm surrounded on all ends ..left , right , above , below…in front , in back …….it sucks …. 
this impacts every aspect of my music production …all my mic's , amp's ..are rendered useless ... 
my whole selection of acoustic instruments …unusable at home …same goes for trying to mix ….
I never know what it really sounds like because I have to mix at mouse whisper levels ...
 
Oh Yeah I sure want to book a ticket to that studio you mentioned …. the thought of doing music in a treated room / studio sounds like heaven to me .
 
 
Kenny
 
 
 

The nice thing about Scott Garrigus's Power Books is that he approaches the Sonar program one step at a time...you can read just one page, go to the computer and get first hand knowledge of what he's talking about in the book, then move to the next subject....It's a sort of checklist that you go thru to see that all systems are go...just like launching off a rocket. Doing this gives you a very good understanding of the details of the program. 
 
As an example, I was reading about the Sonar browser window last night, and refreshed my memory of all the details about it. As I was checking my effects list, it dawned on me that during the last fresh install or my hard drive, I forgot to re-install my third party TSAR-1R Reverb unit. So I re-installed it last night...that's right, it's like going over the program with a fine tooth comb....getting all the ducks in a row...one step at a time.

John

montezuma

John
You forgot to mention MIDI! Outstanding post Craig. 
 
 
Also I would add of all the DAWs out there I believe Sonar to be the easiest to figure out. In Cubase you don't record to a track you have to setup inputs and record to them.  Logic as I recall was all about the "environment". It was everything.  Don't understand that and you will be lost. Reaper is one big gigantic menu.
 
Sonar acts like a Windows program and is simple in how it has things organized.
 
 
 
 

Studio One is pretty easy to use...easier than Sonar I find...although some may say it's more a toy than a pro DAW. Not sure why you turned the opening post into a passive aggressive DAW showdown though. The theme of the opening post is about how daunting it is to have so much at your fingertips. In a breath, you've gone and embroiled Cubase, Logic and Reaper in a potential dick measuring competition when all you had to do was say...haha...yeah...it's a jungle out there in DAWland.

Studio One wasn't around when I was learning Logic on the PC. I don't put Studio One in the same league as the above DAWs. Working with Cubase was also difficult for me. Sonar was not. That was my only point. 
 
And no it is not a jungle out there. I know what I wanted to say and I did. Too bad you found fault. I don't need someone to rewrite my posts. 

With all due respect...John...I think you do