Okay I misunderstood. I thought you were saying selecting 128th in drop-down was giving you 64 triplet resolution. I can see how the keybindings might be indexed incorrectly, since they omitted the listing for 64th trips.

brundlefly
Okay I misunderstood. I thought you were saying selecting 128th in drop-down was giving you 64 triplet resolution. I can see how the keybindings might be indexed incorrectly, since they omitted the listing for 64th trips.

Yeah, alright.. :)
Well, it's the shortcut I miss and desperately try and find a workaround for =)

You don't find the num pad nudge solution very helpful? I think nudging 10 ticks or so left or right will "give the performance the right feel."

brundlefly
This is a bug as far as I'm concerned. Per the X3 Reference Guide, page 740: "The Piano Roll view always obeys the global Snap to Grid on/off setting, even if you specify anindependent snap resolution in the Piano Roll view. The Snap settings in the Piano Roll view only
apply to the snap resolution, not whether Snap to Grid is on or off."

I agree with you 100%!

Having separate snap values is a must, but not having a shortcut to quickly toggle it on/off is un-acceptable! This is already a big nuisance... And I've only been using X3 for 2 days...

I do not use snap follows zoom as it doesn't work for me... I don't get what I need when I need it... And as for snap itself, I need to toggle it many times in most editing... I remember how much we spoke about needing the separate snaps when X1 came out with "universal snap" and felt a cover up for net recreating the snap abilities from 8.5.3... It has still not been quite right but at least better. Until now it's very counter productive...

I believe this is a bug as brundlefly points out, but if it's gotta take a feature request to make the programmers feel better about fixing it... So be it... I'm gonna post a request as soon as I get into the studio (on iPad right now)...

I hope everyone else posts such a request to make it loud and clear that this needs immediate attention...!

BTW... A big thanks to Paul P for directing me to this thread as I just posted my own notice of this bug...

Keni

Lance Riley [Cakewalk]
 
- Set PRV to follow snap setting (PRV | View | Grid Resolution)
- Set the global snap to smart snap (Right-Click the drop down)

 
Nice tip. I found my problem which was not seeing the PRV snap setting at the far top right.

Lance Riley [Cakewalk]

Loptec
In pre X3 golbal snap has always been exactly that. GLOBAL. When turning global snap off, nothing snapped anywhere in Sonar. I often used this in PRV when nudging notes back and forth and changing note lengths to give the performance the right feel.
 
Turning off global snap in X3 does NOT however stop the notes in PRV from snapping. The snap icons react exactly as in X2 and get greyed out even though the notes still snap to the (now greyed out) value set in PRV..
I sent a problem repport to Cakewalk and described the behaviour. A few days later I got this mail:
 

The PRV snap is independent from global snap. The is helpful for users who need very specific snap settings for the PRV exclusively.  For most editing jobs the follow settings will likely work best for you based on the information you gave.
 
- Set PRV to follow snap setting (PRV | View | Grid Resolution)
- Set the global snap to smart snap (Right-Click the drop down)
- I always like to enable grid lines in the PRV because this will display the current snap settings 
 
Now for most edits based on your zoom level you'll get different snap resolutions. Closer for more surgical edits and further for rough or large edits. This works for a lot of things but of course not everything...
 
Another way to control snap is to use the secondary global snap setting by holding the [N] key. This by default snaps to 1 sample but could be set to anything. This is handy for making edits that are not the most common. After releasing the [N] key the snap module will automatically return to the previous settings.
 
If you feel that having a keybinding for the PRV specific snap would be helpful I encourage you to submit a feature request to the link below.
http://www.cakewalk.com/support/contact/featurerequest.aspx 

Thanks Riley, but as I've posted and feature requested and problem reported... This has a number of difficulties... I can not use smart snap as it doesn't give me the resolutions I need when I need them...

...and even if it magically did, being unable to quickly enable/disable is a royal PITA... Far too much moving my mouse back and forth... I'm sure many others will agree with me...

I imagine the smart snap works for you, but it is way off for my needs... And not having a shortcut to enable/disable PRV snap is a major fly in the ointment regardless of whether it shares the global on/off or has it's own....

Please consider these thoughts... I'm sure I'm not alone in this thinking...

Keni

I agree that this should be fixed, but what I don't understand is how it's too much trouble to click the PRV snap on/off with a mouse if you're moving notes around the piano roll with a mouse anyway. Sure a key binding would be great for this but I can't see its absence as being too much of a productivity drain. Maybe I'm alone in not minding moving the mouse much (phew!)

sharke
I agree that this should be fixed, but what I don't understand is how it's too much trouble to click the PRV snap on/off with a mouse if you're moving notes around the piano roll with a mouse anyway. Sure a key binding would be great for this but I can't see its absence as being too much of a productivity drain. Maybe I'm alone in not minding moving the mouse much (phew!)

Or you must play much better and not need as much editing... ;-)
 
No, seriously, when I'm doing a lot of editing, the difference between a key click and a mouse move is a lot of redundancy... it gets old very fast...
 
It used to be a separate value for PRV, but it got toggled by the global N... then we lost having separate values for PRV and the Clips Pane... finally got it back but it's been fraught with difficulties ever since... Sometimes it won't turn on/off and I must enable/disable global to get the PRV-snap to toggle... sometimes the grid doesn't follow the PRV snap setting and I must dance around with toggling both global and PRV snap before I get the right resolution on my screen...
 
I tried working with smart grid a few times and it's never given me the resolution snap I want at the zoom I want... So I can't use it... Though it would be tedious, maybe (and this is a big maybe) if users could set their own smart-snap values (linked to particular zoom ranges) it might work better, but as you see I question that as well...
 
I think the easiest thing would simply be to tie PRV snap to a shortcut (or at least allow it to be assigned such by the user)... I'm sure the other little bugs will disappear eventually.... Unless of course we get another face lift before then... :-)
 
Keni
 

Keni

sharke
I agree that this should be fixed, but what I don't understand is how it's too much trouble to click the PRV snap on/off with a mouse if you're moving notes around the piano roll with a mouse anyway. Sure a key binding would be great for this but I can't see its absence as being too much of a productivity drain. Maybe I'm alone in not minding moving the mouse much (phew!)

Or you must play much better and not need as much editing... ;-)
 
No, seriously, when I'm doing a lot of editing, the difference between a key click and a mouse move is a lot of redundancy... it gets old very fast...
 
It used to be a separate value for PRV, but it got toggled by the global N... then we lost having separate values for PRV and the Clips Pane... finally got it back but it's been fraught with difficulties ever since... Sometimes it won't turn on/off and I must enable/disable global to get the PRV-snap to toggle... sometimes the grid doesn't follow the PRV snap setting and I must dance around with toggling both global and PRV snap before I get the right resolution on my screen...
 
I tried working with smart grid a few times and it's never given me the resolution snap I want at the zoom I want... So I can't use it... Though it would be tedious, maybe (and this is a big maybe) if users could set their own smart-snap values (linked to particular zoom ranges) it might work better, but as you see I question that as well...
 
I think the easiest thing would simply be to tie PRV snap to a shortcut (or at least allow it to be assigned such by the user)... I'm sure the other little bugs will disappear eventually.... Unless of course we get another face lift before then... :-)
 
Keni
 

Believe me I play terribly...I think my workflow must be a little different. I usually play a part, edit out any bum notes, then quantize to 95% or so (sometimes on a note by note basis). I might then change some note positions with snap-by turned on, then I turn snap off and do any fine "feel" tuning in one final pass. So I guess I'm not switching in and out of snap as much as you. Everyone has their own workflow however, and I guess it's the job of the program to cater to all of them.

I have 2 work methods (and this is all base on 4.0.2 Producer - I'm demoing X3 this week)
1) Off the grid: (Orchestral Playlist see sig.)
Play it all in with my Yamaha S-90 and never quantize anything.
Fix any notes that aren't in the flow in PRV by dragging them to where they sound correct in context, and when I need more resolution I right click on them and adjusting timing there.
Snap is never on when I'm working like this.

2) On the grid: (Recent Chronological Playlist see sig.)
I never play anything. I don't even sit at my piano.
Everything is entered with the draw tool.
Snap is almost always on and most always at 1/32 but I need "N" to turn it off occasionally to adjust durations.
But generally the whole piece is "on the grid" if I'm just looking at note start times.

I'm just demoing X3 this week and have been working in Sonar 4 Producer since it came out.

I'm not yet sure how snap is working for me in X3

but if I have to use a mouse to tun it on or off .... well .... I don't know.
I might just stick with 4.0.2 and rather suffer through needing to freeze tracks than
suffer in speed and ease during composition. More testing over the next few days will tell for me.

< Keni said: >
"when I'm doing a lot of editing, the difference between a key click and a mouse move is a lot of redundancy... it gets old very fast..."
<end Keni said>

I hear ya and agree totally.
I'd see it as lost time eventually adding up ... hours, days weeks ... of lost time.