• SONAR
  • Instruments Question
2014/04/08 22:07:59
Corribus
I know this is kind of a noobish question, but: I am about to conclude my trial run of Sonar and I after a bumpy beginning I like the program a lot. Currently I am using the midi instruments available with my digital piano, and while they are passable on average, I do wish I had more and better options. I got to figuring that since they're all just digital samples, there must be digital instrument packages you can download and use right from your computer. I did some cursory sleuthing around the internet and found VSTIs, which I guess are the digital instrument collections I want and which I guess I can interface with Sonar (correct me please if I'm wrong).  But digging any further than that got me into a confusing world of VSTs, 95% do who-knows-what. All I really want are some nice instruments and other sound effects - I don't need any supercomplex mixing functions or skins or anything. Can anyone boil it down for me, maybe make a suggestion for what might satisfy my needs? It doesn't have to be free, but on the other hand, I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on these either.
 
(I found Dimension Pro here on the Cakewalk website - is this what I'm after? Are there other options around that are less expensive?)
2014/04/09 01:06:10
57Gregy
Welcome to the forum.
There are several VST instruments included with SONAR. Which ones you have depend on which version of SONAR you're using.
Click the Insert button at the top, then Soft Synths to see which ones you have.
Read more on using software synthesizers in the Help files.
If you're using XP, you can check out the great (and free!) Proteus VX. There are tons of other synths available on the internet, from free to thousands of dollars.
2014/04/09 23:02:04
Corribus
Thanks for the quick response. Care to recommend a few of those instruments? I'm not looking for anything crazy. Just solid instruments, percussion, some decent pads and leads.
 
I'm running Windows 7 64 bit, but I also have a laptop with 32 bit if that extends my options any.
2014/04/09 23:52:14
RobertB
Timothy, what are your system specs? edit:answered while I was typing.
In particular, your OS and interface(if any).
Will your digital piano function as a MIDI controller?
RE the bumpy start, we all had that. It does get better, really.
 
VSTs come in basically two flavors, VST Effects, and VST Instruments(aka Soft Synths).
DimPro is nice, and Cakewalk offers some free expansion packs to give it an even broader range of sounds.
It is a worthwhile addition to your arsenal, imo, and will cover a lot of the sounds you seem to be looking for.
I'm a big fan of Proteus that Greg mentioned. I'm still using it on a Vista machine, but I don't know that it is faring well under the newer operating systems.
 
Based on what you've outlined so far, I might lean toward X3(basic version) and DimPro.
Maybe X3 Studio. It does bring some nice stuff to the table.
Be sure to leave some room in the budget for an interface( if you don't already have one).
This is critical for playing/recording soft synths real-time.
The built-in sound card in your computer will most likely not cut it.
 
2014/04/10 09:35:21
57Gregy
Corribus
Thanks for the quick response. Care to recommend a few of those instruments? I'm not looking for anything crazy. Just solid instruments, percussion, some decent pads and leads.
 
I'm running Windows 7 64 bit, but I also have a laptop with 32 bit if that extends my options any.




What version of SONAR are you running?
Is the 32-bit computer XP, Vista or W7 or 8?
What VSTis are listed under Insert in your program?
I have checked out soft synths on the 'net, but other than Proteus, I've never used any, except to try out. I use the sounds of my keyboard, mostly. Google "free soft synths" and you'll get tons of results.
2014/04/10 21:07:22
Corribus
Thanks, some really helpful responses.

Right now I'm still using the trial version of Sonar. I imagine I'll probably end up buying the program because I like it despite the very steep learning curve (and I am a previous Cakewalk owner - tho my last version was Cakewalk Pro Audio 4 or something, like 15 years ago). Currently I have it interfaced with my digital piano (Kawai CN34), which has a few hundred built in instruments of varying quality. I had a bunch of old midi files I created with my old version of Cakewalk that I wanted to use as a starting point, so I loaded them into Sonar Trial, and used my CN34's instrument suite for playback through the piano (which I also used to record mp3 files). After a whole lot of tweaking, I've been fairly happy with the results, but some of the instruments on my CN34 I just don't like, notably the cello (sounds like a walrus in pain), some winds, and brass. Also the selection of effects, like pads and leads, is a little limited, so all my songs end up sounding very similar. Honestly, I don't use the digital piano for playing notes into the software. I usually do most of my note input with the mouse, and use the piano only for its sounds. My laptop near my piano (Windows 7 32 bit) also has a very small screen, which is difficult to use with Sonar.
 
Therefore, what I'd kind of like to do is have Sonar installed on my desktop computer (64 bit windows, with 32 inch screen) and ditch the piano altogether. As has been pointed out, the sounds that come with the sound card just don't cut it. So what I'm looking for is a few hundred good quality instruments and sounds that I can put on my desktop computer so I can run Sonar right from there, using my piano for recording only if I have to.
 
I tried installing Soft Synths on my cakewalk. When I go that I have under VST2 an option called Cakewalk Sound Center. I tried fiddling with it but I can't hear anything on playback and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of instruments to be honest. Maybe there are more options with a real version of Sonar?
 
Also, sorry for the ignorance, but what do you mean by "interface"?
 
My budget isn't hard capped but I'd like to spend less than $200 to $250 on this (including price of Sonar) since this is really just a hobby for me.
 
Thanks again for the guidance. I had previously thought Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop were hard to figure out. This audio stuff is even crazier...
2014/04/11 10:22:58
57Gregy
Sound Center is expandable with many sound packs you can add (buy) to it.
SONAR X3 Studio includes Dimension LE, which has Garritan Pocket Orchestra in it. I think those sounds are pretty good. Check out my soundclick site for Suite For Piano and Orchestra. I used the GPO Horns, French horn, strings, and woodwinds in it.
2014/04/11 10:41:51
57Gregy
Oh, and an interface is an audio interface. That's a high-quality sound card designed for recording and playing sound, essential if you're using a lot of software synthesizers and/or many audio tracks and effects.
2014/04/12 11:36:14
Corribus
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the pointers. I see Sonar Studio is on Steam with all the Sound Center expansions for $299. That seems like a pretty good deal. I listened to the song you linked to and I agree the instruments sound pretty good.
 
When I put my PC together a few years ago, I put most of my peripheral money into a video card, so all I've got is the Sound Card functionality that comes with the mother board. It's a good quality mother board but the sound card is probably nothing special. I know Sound Cards usually aren't very expensive.. but what will one allow me to do that I can't do with the integrated one?
Thanks again
T
2014/04/12 12:39:38
Kalle Rantaaho
Corribus
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the pointers. 
 I know Sound Cards usually aren't very expensive.. but what will one allow me to do that I can't do with the integrated one?
Thanks again
T




The integrated soundchips simply don't have very good drivers, which often means you can't get the latency low enough (= disturbing delay between hitting the keyboard and hearing the sound). Dedicated cards don't necessarily offer you much special that you in theory couldn't do with the mobo chip, but they just work better and more reliably in multitrack recording. Less glithes, better AD/DA converters etc.. better pre amps, phantom power feed for condenser microphones etc. 
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