• SONAR
  • Recipes for Sonar Success (p.2)
2014/04/26 05:54:24
Mystic38
Cant agree with this..
 
a) A low end graphics card relies on the CPU for processing and system ram for memory, hence that IS bad for Sonar performance.
b) High end graphics cards present the smallest possible overhead to the system. They do as much of the work as is possible.
c) The amount of video processing required is determined by the monitor number, color depth, resolution, refresh rate but most importantly, the demands of the application. Having a powerful video card simply gives increased processing speed and capability to enable the application to run at its optimum rate.
 
cheers,
 
robert_e_bone
Well, lots of gaming computers are set up to maximize for VIDEO, and that can sometimes be problematic, due to having video processing take precedence over streaming audio, and that would be bad for Sonar - that sort of thing.
 
For Sonar, memory, CPU power, and hard drive type/number of/configuration seem to be the bigger issues than video.
 
Bob Bone
 




2014/04/26 06:20:53
Kev999
Anderton
2. Treat your computer like a multitrack tape recorder. Use a different computer, like the aforementioned $399 box from Office Depot (or what used to be your music computer), to do your taxes, write notes, crop photos, and all that other personal stuff. Separate church and state, and both will be happier.

 
Or, if you can't afford a separate PC or don't have the space to put it, then dual-boot is a good alternative.
2014/04/26 06:41:00
gswitz
IDK if I agree with Craig's post much.
 
  • I didn't start with a computer built for audio (too big a commitment).
  • I use my computer for anything I want, including software development and taxes.
  • I do backup stuff I care about.
  • I don't practice safe update. If things stop working, I rebuild.
  • I've been on 64 bit since Vista, but when I went 64 bit I went back and forth for a while. It took time to get the build correct for drivers for all my gear.
  • I do read manuals. Sometimes, I read them without a specific purpose in mind.
  • It's cheap to post questions to the forum. I try not to embarrass myself, but short of that, I don't hesitate.
  • I've made so many mid session screw ups... I'd just say I learn as I go and don't sweat the lost recording. I just plug in and do it again.
For me, the recipe for success has been steady persistence.
2014/04/26 10:07:14
markyzno
Kev999
Anderton
2. Treat your computer like a multitrack tape recorder. Use a different computer, like the aforementioned $399 box from Office Depot (or what used to be your music computer), to do your taxes, write notes, crop photos, and all that other personal stuff. Separate church and state, and both will be happier.

 
Or, if you can't afford a separate PC or don't have the space to put it, then dual-boot is a good alternative.




Or use VMWARE Player.
 
I have Windows 7 on my Windows 8 machine. Comes in VERY handy indeed.
2014/04/26 10:10:06
markyzno
Mystic38
Cant agree with this..
 
a) A low end graphics card relies on the CPU for processing and system ram for memory, hence that IS bad for Sonar performance.
b) High end graphics cards present the smallest possible overhead to the system. They do as much of the work as is possible.
c) The amount of video processing required is determined by the monitor number, color depth, resolution, refresh rate but most importantly, the demands of the application. Having a powerful video card simply gives increased processing speed and capability to enable the application to run at its optimum rate.
 
cheers,
 
robert_e_bone
Well, lots of gaming computers are set up to maximize for VIDEO, and that can sometimes be problematic, due to having video processing take precedence over streaming audio, and that would be bad for Sonar - that sort of thing.
 
For Sonar, memory, CPU power, and hard drive type/number of/configuration seem to be the bigger issues than video.
 
Bob Bone
 








I am with Mystic on this. I have 3 graphics cards, AMD, NVIDIA and a built in on Motherboard one. This enables me to run 4 monitors which MASSIVELY helps my work flow with Sonar and as its 3 cards doesnt hog my CPU or put too much load on one particular card with regards to voltage and therefore fan noise.
2014/04/26 10:12:27
markyzno
I'd like to add a point in this.
 
If it aint broke dont try and fix it. So many times I see Users with a perfectly good system go and try and squeeze every last millimetre of juice out of a machines performance or streamlining windows and run into dreadful problems that are their own making. Most PC's now are perfectly powerful enough to run everything you want, especially in a 64 bit environment. 
 
2014/04/26 10:57:30
Anderton
Mystic38
Cant agree with this..
 
a) A low end graphics card relies on the CPU for processing and system ram for memory, hence that IS bad for Sonar performance.
b) High end graphics cards present the smallest possible overhead to the system. They do as much of the work as is possible.
c) The amount of video processing required is determined by the monitor number, color depth, resolution, refresh rate but most importantly, the demands of the application. Having a powerful video card simply gives increased processing speed and capability to enable the application to run at its optimum rate.


I think these days, even low-end video cards have their own CPU and a decent amount of RAM. And I agree that it's most certainly possible to have a high-end gaming system that works extremely well for audio, especially if you're a savvy user. But it's not just about video; there are some major differences compared to computers integrated for audio.
 
Noise level. This is a very big deal for me. Gaming computers often have lots of fans, and high-end gaming cards invariably have one (some of the higher-end machines have two graphics cards so there are two fans). I use an ATI video card that doesn't need a fan, and before that I used a fanless Matrox, which really helps with the S/N ratio in the studio itself. Also, good music computers typically have some kind of acoustical treatment inside the case. The boxes don't look as cool as gaming computers, but they're quieter.
 
High-resolution mice. These have been documented to have negative effects in many audio setups.
 
Form factor. Rack-mount gaming computers may exist, but I haven't seen any. Although many music computers are towers, serveer-type rack-mount models are available if that's what you need.
 
Lack of RAM. Typical gaming computers have 8GB of RAM, which is fine for what most gamers need because the high-end graphics card(s) offload to their own RAM. Of course there are more costly models with extra RAM, but with music computers, the idea of having lots of RAM is standard. For heavy-duty audio where you're loading virtual instruments into RAM, 16GB is pretty much the minimum you need, and 32GB will make for a much better user experience. Of course you can expand RAM, but a lot of users don't want to have to get overly technical with a machine.
 
Storage. Doing audio work requires lots of storage. It can be difficult for an end user to add additional internal hard drives with some gaming machines, and many ship with only 1TB or 2TB of storage in a single drive. For audio work you really need three internal drives - a system drive, a drive for audio data, and a drive for sound library storage. You can always add USB or FireWire hard drive storage, but I have four internal drives in my machine AND two external USB drives as a matter of course, not including separate backup drives.
 
As to graphics cards, I think it depends somewhat on the usage. I have talked with people who use devices that put major trafifc on the PCI bus, like "DSP farm" boards. They tell me that some graphics cards really hog the bus. I don't know enough to verify whether that's true or not, but they seemed quite certain that can be an issue and they changed graphics cards as a result.
 
Granted you can build your own machine, or modify a gaming machine to have the extras needed for audio work. But it's clear from some of the posts here that many users are musicians, not computer experts, and they just want to be able to pull out a credit card or write a check and get a machine. The thread title is "recipes for success," and I still believe that if they write a check to the company that makes computers specifically for music, by and large they will have a more successful experience than spending the same amount of money on a computer optimized for gaming.
 
 
 
2014/04/26 11:03:48
Anderton
If Jim Roseberry wants to chime in here and support or refute any of my points, that would be welcome. Given his level of knowledge I don't think anyone would perceive it as a spammy sort of post.
2014/04/26 11:06:02
markyzno
Anderton
 
 
Storage. Doing audio work requires lots of storage. It can be difficult for an end user to add additional internal hard drives with some gaming machines, and many ship with only 1TB or 2TB of storage in a single drive. For audio work you really need three internal drives - a system drive, a drive for audio data, and a drive for sound library storage. You can always add USB or FireWire hard drive storage, but I have four internal drives in my machine AND two external USB drives as a matter of course, not including separate backup drives.
 
 



 
Couldnt agree more....In the Audio film world its a nightmare with storage as I have to contain large video files also (plus I am also a musician so have that as well)... A good investment is a NAS box, mine serves me extremely well and its also the place I backup my Windows libraries and system every night.
 
The good thing about the NAS is that its RAID so if one drive fails I'll plop it out and put another one in so I have a failover.
 
A no brainer really and they arent that expensive anymore.
2014/04/26 12:31:13
brundlefly
markyzno
If it aint broke dont try and fix it. So many times I see Users with a perfectly good system go and try and squeeze every last millimetre of juice out of a machines performance or streamlining windows and run into dreadful problems that are their own making.



+1  Other than disabling CPU throttling, power management, and anything that measurably affects DPC latency (e.g. WiFi), and minimizing the number of TSRs loaded at startup, excessive system tweaking tends to be more problematic than helpful.
 
Incidentally, although I generally agree that a dedicated, purpose-built, audio-optimized PC is ideal for best performance and reliability, I've personally had very good and stable performance with my off-the-shelf Dell (and other OTS machines before it), and I use it for everything. If music were my living, I might not be quite so cavalier about all the web surfing and other things I do on it. But if you exercise a moderate level of caution in what you download and execute with some basic firewall and anti-virus/spyware protection in place, it's quite possible to use your all-purpose PC as a DAW without ever suffering any significant consequences.
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