• SONAR
  • Recipes for Sonar Success (p.3)
2014/04/26 12:34:55
SteveStrummerUK
 
* If you rely on help from the forums, don't use animated .gifs for your avatar or in your signature
2014/04/26 13:05:24
markyzno
brundlefly
 If music were my living, I might not be quite so cavalier about all the web surfing and other things I do on it. But if you exercise a moderate level of caution in what you download and execute with some basic firewall and anti-virus/spyware protection in place, it's quite possible to use your all-purpose PC as a DAW without ever suffering any significant consequences.



Word! +1
 
I am posting here (not via wireless tho, through a switch in the studio hardwires to the router) while Sonar merrily is looping a 16 bar loop of 38 tracks and 10 busses, and this is a pro job...
2014/04/26 15:55:33
Geo524
If I recall correctly my video card is 1gb, I think? I'll have to double check on that but I believe it's 1 gig. The card has a fan on-board which some will say is a no-no but I can't even hear it running and it hasn't affected me negatively whatsoever. I installed an extra 16 GB of RAM for a total of 24. Max RAM is 32 so eventually I will be adding another stick of 8GB. In addition to the included 1 TB drive I installed 2 more 1 TB drives along with a 640 gig. Plenty of storage for my needs. My gaming PC has 6 fans with speed control. With controls set on medium it is quieter than my custom built PC which has only 3 fans. Average temps on the gaming PC (even after an all day session) haven't exceeded 23 degrees celcius. On the custom build, temps run between 38 and 44 degrees celcius after an all day session. I much prefer a desk top which is what both my recording PC's are. No high-rez mouse here. just a plain old logitech mouse and keyboard. I know most users aren't that technical. I am not a computer whiz by any means but I do know enough to do simple modifications and installs. Even with the extra added MEM and HDD's I saved a heap of money which was my initial goal and I have no complaints about performance. I think most new computers these days will perform well enough to record music. Not trying to debate anyone here just posting my experience. My gaming PC is good...
2014/04/26 16:19:44
Mystic38
My initial post was to refute the thought that a powerful graphics card was a bad idea. Its not. every decent graphics card has intelligent fan control... don't use the horsepower?.. fan is at idle.
 
I run three HD monitors, and performance without an above average graphics card is unacceptable in screen refresh/redraw..
 
I also cannot agree at all with your perception of gaming machines. For the same horsepower a modern gaming machine is quieter, due to a larger case, liquid cooling, and intelligent fan control than an equivalent off the shelf PC. I don't know ANY gamer that does not max out amount with the highest speed RAM.. its a critical part of computer performance, ditto for hard disk performance due to the massive load files that occur at start and in game.. so both disk and ram performance are critical.
 
I am not suggesting people buy gaming machines, mostly because they would be overpaying for a system that wont be fully utilized as the stress on a PC from a modern game far exceeds that from a DAW. Again the post was to refute the thought that a powerful graphics card was a bad idea... a mediocre graphics card however is a very terrible idea.
 
So, onwards.... as a "recipe for success", no matter what PC someone buys, it needs to be optimized to a greater or lesser degree. Period. For the general enthusiast public, where budget is a concern, that means buying an off the shelf reasonably high spec machine and following the sensible advise in this thread. ie. dedicated use, turn off anti virus, no internet, latency optimization etc.
 
separately, I don't understand the rack system comment. A rack system is not a recipe for success, its simply a form factor. Its what is IN the machine that matters.
 
regards,
 
Ian
 
here endeth any further interest in graphics cards on my part. mine is powerful, deathly quiet and runs 3 monitors flawlessly :)
 
Anderton
Mystic38
Cant agree with this..
 
a) A low end graphics card relies on the CPU for processing and system ram for memory, hence that IS bad for Sonar performance.
b) High end graphics cards present the smallest possible overhead to the system. They do as much of the work as is possible.
c) The amount of video processing required is determined by the monitor number, color depth, resolution, refresh rate but most importantly, the demands of the application. Having a powerful video card simply gives increased processing speed and capability to enable the application to run at its optimum rate.


I think these days, even low-end video cards have their own CPU and a decent amount of RAM. And I agree that it's most certainly possible to have a high-end gaming system that works extremely well for audio, especially if you're a savvy user. But it's not just about video; there are some major differences compared to computers integrated for audio.
 
Noise level. This is a very big deal for me. Gaming computers often have lots of fans, and high-end gaming cards invariably have one (some of the higher-end machines have two graphics cards so there are two fans). I use an ATI video card that doesn't need a fan, and before that I used a fanless Matrox, which really helps with the S/N ratio in the studio itself. Also, good music computers typically have some kind of acoustical treatment inside the case. The boxes don't look as cool as gaming computers, but they're quieter.
 
High-resolution mice. These have been documented to have negative effects in many audio setups.
 
Form factor. Rack-mount gaming computers may exist, but I haven't seen any. Although many music computers are towers, serveer-type rack-mount models are available if that's what you need.
 
Lack of RAM. Typical gaming computers have 8GB of RAM, which is fine for what most gamers need because the high-end graphics card(s) offload to their own RAM. Of course there are more costly models with extra RAM, but with music computers, the idea of having lots of RAM is standard. For heavy-duty audio where you're loading virtual instruments into RAM, 16GB is pretty much the minimum you need, and 32GB will make for a much better user experience. Of course you can expand RAM, but a lot of users don't want to have to get overly technical with a machine.
 
Storage. Doing audio work requires lots of storage. It can be difficult for an end user to add additional internal hard drives with some gaming machines, and many ship with only 1TB or 2TB of storage in a single drive. For audio work you really need three internal drives - a system drive, a drive for audio data, and a drive for sound library storage. You can always add USB or FireWire hard drive storage, but I have four internal drives in my machine AND two external USB drives as a matter of course, not including separate backup drives.
 
As to graphics cards, I think it depends somewhat on the usage. I have talked with people who use devices that put major trafifc on the PCI bus, like "DSP farm" boards. They tell me that some graphics cards really hog the bus. I don't know enough to verify whether that's true or not, but they seemed quite certain that can be an issue and they changed graphics cards as a result.
 
Granted you can build your own machine, or modify a gaming machine to have the extras needed for audio work. But it's clear from some of the posts here that many users are musicians, not computer experts, and they just want to be able to pull out a credit card or write a check and get a machine. The thread title is "recipes for success," and I still believe that if they write a check to the company that makes computers specifically for music, by and large they will have a more successful experience than spending the same amount of money on a computer optimized for gaming.
 
 
 




2014/04/26 17:52:14
Anderton
Mystic38
I run three HD monitors, and performance without an above average graphics card is unacceptable in screen refresh/redraw..

 
With three HD monitors, agreed...you definitely need a powerful graphics card.
 

I also cannot agree at all with your perception of gaming machines. For the same horsepower a modern gaming machine is quieter, due to a larger case, liquid cooling, and intelligent fan control than an equivalent off the shelf PC.

 
I was not talking about off-the-shelf PCs, but computers integrated specifically for music. My comments in post #17 were about turnkey gaming machines I've seen advertised on the web in the same price range as computers integrated for music.
 
I am not suggesting people buy gaming machines, mostly because they would be overpaying for a system that wont be fully utilized as the stress on a PC from a modern game far exceeds that from a DAW. 

 
Well, we're totally on the same page. If the person buys a computer optimized for music, the tradeoffs will have already been made by the systems integrator for more RAM and storage as opposed to super-high speed frame rates and such.
 
So, onwards.... as a "recipe for success", no matter what PC someone buys, it needs to be optimized to a greater or lesser degree. Period.

 
Again, we're on the same page - that was exactly my point. I've found that computers integrated specifically for music are better than off-the-shelf computers and more cost-effective than gaming machines. Although there are people like yourself who are capable of doing their own optimization, many (most?) DAW users are not.
 

separately, I don't understand the rack system comment. A rack system is not a recipe for success, its simply a form factor. Its what is IN the machine that matters.

 
It was in the context of the difference between a computer for music and a computer for gaming. Many studios are set up with rack mount systems for various devices, so a computer can integrate with that easily. Rack systems are often set up with lights on the back, additional outlets (helpful for those external storage devices), and sometimes even voltage regulators.
 
2014/04/26 18:55:42
John
Because we are talking about hardware I recommend a very good power supply. If you get your machine off the shelf and add nothing to it you may get by with its stock power supply. If you add HDs and RAM or use lots of USB than it may pay off to look for a better power supply.  Here more power is better but quality is important too. One thing you do not want is an under powered power supply. It can cause all sorts of problems that are hard to track down.  
2014/04/26 19:12:54
Anderton
John
Because we are talking about hardware I recommend a very good power supply. If you get your machine off the shelf and add nothing to it you may get by with its stock power supply. If you add HDs and RAM or use lots of USB than it may pay off to look for a better power supply.  Here more power is better but quality is important too. One thing you do not want is an under powered power supply. It can cause all sorts of problems that are hard to track down.  



That is a REALLY excellent point. Thanks.
2014/04/26 20:23:39
Kev999
Anderton
Lack of RAM. ...For heavy-duty audio where you're loading virtual instruments into RAM, 16GB is pretty much the minimum you need, and 32GB will make for a much better user experience...



I have projects with countless numbers of virtual instruments and lots of different multisamples loaded into SampleTank, SampleTron, multiple instances of Miroslav and DimPro, plus large kits in Battery 3, and more besides. And yet I have never even come close to maxing out my meagre 6GB of RAM. I could add more, but it would be a waste of money.
2014/04/26 22:42:00
Geo524
Oh yeah. The power supply. Good point  indeed. I had the factory upgrade the stock 450 watt PS to a 600 watt.
2014/04/26 23:16:51
wst3
Kev999
I have projects with countless numbers of virtual instruments and lots of different multisamples loaded into SampleTank, SampleTron, multiple instances of Miroslav and DimPro, plus large kits in Battery 3, and more besides. And yet I have never even come close to maxing out my meagre 6GB of RAM.



Wow... care to share more? I start to hit the wall with 8GB of RAM with just four instance of Kontakt (all loaded with 16 instruments each). If I start fully purged I can get one or two more instances (again fully loaded) in place, but at that point I start to get the old CPU death-cry of snaps, crackles, and pops<G>! Well, I also have two instances of Superior 2 loaded most of the time, and it is a memory pig - albeit a great sounding memory pig!

With only four instances of Kontakt, and the Superior instances I usually have room for some synths (Alchemy, FM8, Oddity, Dimension Pro, etc.) But again, I'm tripping over the line with respect to CPU utilization at that point, so I often have to print those tracks.

So I'd like to hear more about how you are managing RAM and CPU...
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account