• SONAR
  • Recipes for Sonar Success (p.4)
2014/04/27 00:27:49
Anderton
Kev999
 
I have projects with countless numbers of virtual instruments and lots of different multisamples loaded into SampleTank, SampleTron, multiple instances of Miroslav and DimPro, plus large kits in Battery 3, and more besides. And yet I have never even come close to maxing out my meagre 6GB of RAM. I could add more, but it would be a waste of money.




Those are fairly old instruments, created when RAM was at a premium. The entire SampleTank and Miroslav libraries are 7GB, and SampleTron is around 2.5GB IIRC; any given Battery kit doesn't take up much memory because drum one-shots are fairly short. So you can load up a lot of instruments and still stay reasonable with memory consumption.
 
Compare that with Vir's Electri6ity, where a single instrument won't run at all unless your computer has 6GB of RAM. Omnisphere's sample library is around 75GB and some of the instruments are pretty hefty. Although modern libraries can often stream from disk, you still need memory to store all the attacks so something will play while waiting for the disk to catch up.
 
Basically, as RAM as gotten less expensive over the years, designers create ever-larger libraries that take more and more RAM. I remember when I had to fit a piano in 64K for a synthesizer back in the 80s! Now 64GB is more like it
 
 
2014/04/27 02:41:37
mettelus
This thread has a lot of golden nuggets dropped in it. One reason why I gravitated to CW in the first place, was I was learning programming back in the day and resource management was key. SONAR as a host has to have efficient programming or it cannot work, and it is even more impressive to have it work on older/less capable machines (HUGE kudos to the bakers for this). The advancement of technology and RAM availability has made some programmers very sloppy as they "can" and is a lazy shortcut to making code "clean and efficient."
 
(Unfortunately,) a DAW creates an environment that allows for omission of the rehearsal phase. As mentioned above, using a bad take and tweaking the crap out of it or slapping on a ton of effects adds resource loading to any machine, and not all VSTs are created equal. It would be nice to have resource usage inside of SONAR to see "resource usage by plugin." The added time overhead/extra resources required to tweak a bad take definitely supports rehearsal/retakes as a better alternative. I personally try to minimize plug-ins just for this reason alone.
 
Tweaking things can cause more problems than not, as people see "one thing" with tweaks, and not the overall system effect of them. Brundlefly's post is a good one on simple, effective tweaks, and I agree that getting carried away with them can cause more harm than good.
 
This machine is almost 3 years old now, and back when I built it I had only one focus - streamlining data flow through the box. I went with 8GB of RAM initially just to stress test it, and ironically have never had "need" to upgrade it. Even editing video (which is cached to a magnetic HDD), I have worked on 12GB files without issues. The graphics load of SONAR is not big at all, so a "hard core" graphics card is not a "must," but as Mystic38 pointed out, the additional resources available (and less CPU usage) by a dedicated high-end card does benefit the system.
 
As far as "fan noise," I think this is another plug to have noise reduction inside SONAR as a feature request. I happen to own Audition, and for anything consistent, it is very slick to remove that noise. It is so good, in fact, that I have come to abuse this feature... I know the Z3TA+2 video I made had a fan-driven ionic air purifier running the whole time about 4' from the mic - definitely NOT quiet, yet consistent, so noise reduction worked great. Audition's noise reduction is slick and powerful, and it would be nice for SONAR to have this right inside the host.
 
I will get in these stints to purposefully try to crash things "just for fun," and I have proven that the "dedicated DAW" is not necessary if the machine has the resources available. I run the onboard sound card all the time, and the ASIO aggregation of the Focusrite Saffire has added to my "brazenness" of running multiple programs simultaneously (through both sound interfaces now because of this feature). I actually do this quite often.
 
Interesting aside to the above... a couple weeks ago I decided to record 15 hours of tapes that I wanted to preserve. Simple stereo recordings, one track at a time. I needed to listen to them as I went, so I could take notes on sections to split out the tracks later on. That specific part made the evolution become as boring as watching paint dry, so I began tasking the system more and more to try to get a system crash... I saved the project between tracks, but started small... simple programs, then bigger and bigger until the last few tracks I was editing video, and playing games (some pretty intense ones running full screen mode that required me to alt-tab back to SONAR to get time stamps of transitions). Yada, yada... bottom line... 15 hours later, after opening/closing programs galore, never rebooting the machine, and tracking/listening to these tapes, I failed to crash the machine
2014/04/27 06:05:25
Kev999
wst3
Kev999
...I have never even come close to maxing out my meagre 6GB of RAM.


...I start to hit the wall with 8GB of RAM with just four instance of Kontakt...


Anderton
Kev999
...lots of different multisamples loaded into SampleTank, SampleTron, multiple instances of Miroslav and DimPro, plus large kits in Battery 3, and more besides...


Those are fairly old instruments...
...Compare that with Vir's Electri6ity, where a single instrument won't run at all unless your computer has 6GB of RAM. Omnisphere's sample library is around 75GB and some of the instruments are pretty hefty. Although modern libraries can often stream from disk, you still need memory to store all the attacks so something will play while waiting for the disk to catch up...


I don't have Kontakt, Omnisphere or Electri6ity, so I guess that's why I never hit the RAM ceiling.  If most people are using these softsynths, then I guess that your statement about 16GB RAM being the standard minimum is probably correct. However, as these are not exactly cheap products, I suspect that maybe they are not quite as ubiquitous as you seem to be suggesting.
2014/04/27 06:44:21
oldsneakers
I back up all my audio files to an external hard drive. My ADK PC is getting on in years and the inevitable C: HD crash was making me lose sleep. So I opened it up and got the make and model of the drive and bought another one. I plugged it into the system and used Paragon backup software to clone the C drive to the backup drive. After I'm done I reboot with the copied drive to make sure it's working right. Then put it on the shelf in case of emergency. I do another backup if I make any significant changes to it.
2014/04/27 08:32:27
lawp
It would be useful if cakewalk could reach out to users and share the specs of the machines/hw they actually develop and test on, would save a lot of gnarl...
2014/04/27 17:13:56
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
A few tips...
 
1 Resist the temptation to over optimize the system. I see tweaks to the system that are outdated or not applicable any more. These cause more harm than good.
 
2 buy the most powerful computer system for your daw that you can afford, but don't buy the absolute top of the line bleeding edge. The newest systems can sometimes have more problems since they are not as mainstream and thereby less tested.
 
3 Install software using the default configuration options as far as possible. If necessary you reconfigure it manually later. Even though its offered, do not migrate settings from your SONAR 1 software installation :) Many defaults have been tweaked for better performance in newer versions and migrating old settings will carry forward old stuff that might actually hurt performance. Also the factory configuration is the most widely tested. SONAR offers a "reset configuration to defaults" option that can be used to revert back to factory settings for the audio configuration.
 
2014/04/27 17:26:03
Grem
So Noel when I get X4, your saying not to import settings from X3, or another older version of X or Sonar?

Or are you saying not to import settings from Sonar 1 specifically?
2014/04/27 19:49:23
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I would choose to not import settings and let the install be treated as a new install. Then go in and change stuff like folder paths to any custom settings you may have. I find this a much more robust approach since you will get to see all the latest defaults in the app.
2014/04/27 23:07:47
Grem
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
I would choose to not import settings and let the install be treated as a new install. Then go in and change stuff like folder paths to any custom settings you may have. I find this a much more robust approach since you will get to see all the latest defaults in the app.




OK. Now I understand. I think I did that for X1. But from then on, and before, I always imported my settings.
 
Now I know why not to.
 
Thanks Noel
2014/04/27 23:10:25
BJN
I have had plenty of help from geo over the years. From studiotrax forum. Cheers geo!
 
I got a big online PC builder stationed locally where I can pick it up and upgraded the case and RAM.
 
(I'd recommend this over buying from a big electrical store as their computers are often brand named but have older components and way more expensive. Get the latest from an online builder. If you want them to upgrade to super quiet probably better from a specialized audio PC builder.)
 
Been happy with it. That Sonar performs so well on off the shelf PCs nowadays is a testimonial to how stable it is. So long as you keep abreast of  comparability issues like in the past some MB or other peripherals might clash.
 
But as Craig points out, when it is the choice between a specialized gamer machine or a music designed PC around the same cost.   
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