• SONAR
  • Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface (p.2)
2014/04/13 22:35:55
robert_e_bone
I have to also ask you for the test I asked you to run again for the 44.1 k or 48 k sample rate, and the 128 ASIO Buffer Size, to please run the test with NO effects plugins loaded anywhere into the project.
 
Certain types of plugins can wreak havoc on dropouts and crackles and such, so I would like ALL effects plugins removed during the test.
 
Sorry I forgot to mention that in the last post.
 
Bob Bone
 
 
2014/04/15 07:07:38
Bort
robert_e_bone
OK - on the matter of the crackles and latency - it was not evident in your response that when you tried 44.1 k and 48 k that you did so while ALSO using an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 at the same time.  

 
I tried every single permutation that this interface supports.  44100, 48000, 88200, and 96000 Hz with every single buffer size (64...-->...2048). That's a total of 36 permutations. All have intermittent pops.
 
robert_e_bone
I run with: Sample Rate = 48 k, record bit-depth of 24-bits, ASIO Buffer Size of 128, and I get a Total Roundtrip Latency of just under 10 milliseconds, AND more importantly - no dropouts/crackles/lag.
 
Since I did see from your content a test where you precisely matched my settings and then posted the Total Roundtrip Latency value on your system while running at those settings, I still politely ask you to run this exact test and then post back the precise results for that test, along with the Total Roundtrip Latency when running with these settings.  Please please please run this test.

 
OK, I tested 48000 at 128 and get a round trip latency of 7ms. I think I am satisfied with the latency. It's the random pops that I can't seem to get rid of.
 
It may be that this interface is just not good. I am thinking of returning it and getting a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. I have seen reviews with others having the same problem. What I like about NI Komplete is that you can run both a DAW on ASIO and your other PC sounds simultaneously (multi-client). Don't know if Focusrite can do this?
 
 




2014/04/15 10:22:42
robert_e_bone
Thanks for going through all of that.
 
If you are running at around 10 milliseconds and still having pops, then perhaps something is wrong with the interface.
 
You have ZERO effects plugins in this project?  Any 32-bit soft synths?
 
IF you have any plugins, what happens if you run at the 48 k 128 combo, and hit 'E' on your computer keyboard to bypass all effects?  (hit 'E' again after testing to enable the effects again).
 
Bob Bone
 
 
2014/04/15 10:27:41
robert_e_bone
Have you tried downloading and running DPC Latency Checker?  This is a freeware application that you would run with Sonar not running, that would measure and report on your computer's basic ability to handle audio streaming applications, such as Sonar.
 
For example, lots of folks have powerful computers, but if they have Wi-Fi adapters, those adapters frequently cause massive latency spikes, which make it impossible to track cleanly due to lag and dropouts.  (the fix for them is to temporarily disable their Wi-Fi adapter just before launching Sonar, then enabling it again right after finishing the Sonar session).
 
You can get DPC Latency Checker here:
 
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
 
The idea is to run DPC Latency Checker for 3-4 minutes without Sonar running, then post back with the results.
 
Bob Bone
 
 
2014/04/16 02:49:53
Bort
robert_e_bone
You have ZERO effects plugins in this project?  Any 32-bit soft synths?

 
I am only running a single VSTI (Synthogy Ivory) with no effects. The VSTI has a built in reverb but I don't thing this is the problem because when I use my so called "crappy" Realtek sound card that's on my motherboard I get no pops. Just pure and clean sound. The only reason I got the NI Komplete Audio 8 is because its drivers support muti-client and the ASIO4All driver I was using with my stock card did not have this feature.
 
robert_e_bone
IF you have any plugins, what happens if you run at the 48 k 128 combo, and hit 'E' on your computer keyboard to bypass all effects?  (hit 'E' again after testing to enable the effects again).

 
I don't have any effects.
 
 




2014/04/16 03:04:35
Bort
robert_e_bone
Have you tried downloading and running DPC Latency Checker?  This is a freeware application that you would run with Sonar not running, that would measure and report on your computer's basic ability to handle audio streaming applications, such as Sonar.

 
Yes I ran this for 20 minutes and it was in the green the whole time. Latency hovers around 100 micro-seconds with an absolute max of 212 micro-seconds. Heard about seven small pops in that time.
  
robert_e_bone
For example, lots of folks have powerful computers, but if they have Wi-Fi adapters, those adapters frequently cause massive latency spikes, which make it impossible to track cleanly due to lag and dropouts.

 
Yep, I read about the Wi-Fi problem. I have no Wi-Fi. This is a desktop with a hard wired network cable.
 
2014/04/16 08:04:19
robert_e_bone
@Bort, quoting you from your above post: "Yes I ran this for 20 minutes and it was in the green the whole time. Latency hovers around 100 micro-seconds with an absolute max of 212 micro-seconds. Heard about seven small pops in that time."
 
So, you heard pops while running DPC Latency Checker, with Sonar not even running?  That sounds like maybe there is something wrong with the interface itself.  
 
The latency values you post as reported by DPC Latency Checker are fine, and your computer should have no problems with audio caused by latency.  (If you had seen recurring red spikes, for example - where latency was over 1000 us - that would have indicated something in your system was causing enough of a problem to where you would not be able to run software like Sonar without dropouts/lag).
 
So, as I indicated above, it sure seems to me like there is something wrong with the interface itself.
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/04/16 10:32:51
ChristopherM
I was considering buying KA6 recently, but I decided against, partly on the strength of the negative comments on the NI user forum at  http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/forums/ni-audio-interfaces.142/ . Probably not what you want to hear, I know.
 
Edit ... Why, I just saw that a user called Bortx has a spookily similar problem to yours, Bort! So I guess you have already soaked up the atmosphere.
 
2014/04/16 10:55:02
Anderton
I highly recommend de-installing ASIO4ALL as a test (you can always re-install it). I have run into interfaces where just having ASIO4ALL installed on the machine interferes with an interface's native drivers. The symptoms are the same as you describe - an inability to get decent latency settings without crackles and pops. As soon as I removed ASIO4ALL (de-selecting it is not enough), the interfaces were able to achieve low latencies and no crackling.
2014/04/17 03:16:58
Bort
 
robert_e_bone
So, you heard pops while running DPC Latency Checker, with Sonar not even running?  That sounds like maybe there is something wrong with the interface itself.  
 

 
No, I had SONAR running as well as the DPC Latency Checker. Both running together. That's how they say you should test it.
 
 
robert_e_bone
The latency values you post as reported by DPC Latency Checker are fine, and your computer should have no problems with audio caused by latency.  (If you had seen recurring red spikes, for example - where latency was over 1000 us - that would have indicated something in your system was causing enough of a problem to where you would not be able to run software like Sonar without dropouts/lag).
 
So, as I indicated above, it sure seems to me like there is something wrong with the interface itself.
 

 
Yes that's what I think too. I am not sure there is something wrong with this particular unit or just with the design itself. I think it was a bad decision to have this unit be powered solely from the USB. To me it seems like they had to make some compromises to make this work. A victim of this decision is the very low max volume on the headphone output.  As I read more about this unit on other forums and reviews, many report having similar problems. Have seen some stating that there are USB power grounding and not enough power issues. Some have solved this with USB hubs that can pump more power into the unit. I have tried this too and it didn't work. I think I am going to return this and get a Focusrite 6i6. Any experience with those?
 




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