gswitz
Idk I think act works pretty well. The only problem I have is with FX chains and mapping to those nobs. I kinda think the FX chain nobs are only partially implemented. Like if you turn the nob on the effect, the FX chain nob doesn't follow.

 
Aside from the FX chain controls, I don't see why it shouldn't just work with VST's in the FX chain like any other VST, i.e. the controls appear in ACT when the plugin's in focus. I seem to recall reading a thread about this from way back in which a Baker said something along the lines of "the FX Chains are intended to be seen as a single unit" by way of an explanation, but I don't really agree with this - to me, the FX Chains are just a way to host VST's in the ProChannel. You're going to insert them wherever you need an effect. You might have a chain of effects in an FX Chain, or you might just have one that's nestled in between two modules. I don't see why VST's within them should be treated differently to any other VST. 
 
And while I'm on the subject, I would love to be able to see resizeable FX Chains so that you could have a "mini" version in cases where you only have one effect in them. They waste a lot of vertical space in the ProChannel when they're almost empty. 

dubdisciple
ACT drives me nuts.  Every now and then I can get things setup the way i want but then it will just stop working

I have a different way of using ACT that's less sophisticated but a whole lot simpler. You can read about it here. It doesn't solve the FX chain/VST plug-in thing with ACT, it's just an easy way to use ACT.

Sharke, I think that when they were planning FX Chains they weren't thinking PC yet. Remember? They brought them in as a tidy addition to the FX Bin. It was a way to sort of have templates of insert-fx that you can use as a jumping off place.
 
The same behavior occurs when you convert the FX Bin to an FX Chain as when you use the FX Chain in the PC. In other words, you can't use Act directly on the effects in the chain any more. You have to map in nobs.
 
Now, when I use this sort of FX chain (the bin sort) the nobs do show up in the Act window. They are also controllable using ACT.
 
I tried creating FX Chains this way and saving them and then loading them into the PC FX Chain module, but still only 1 of the parameters in the FX Chain in the PC is automatable with ACT.

I came to Sonar with X1 so I have no experience of the pre-ProChannel days. To be honest I've never really used the regular FX bins - I'm a big user of ProChannel modules and to mix the ProChannel with the FX bin seems illogical and awkward to me so I just left it alone. I found the thread I was talking about earlier in which Noel offers an explanation. He says "The idea behind FXChains is to provide a composite object that hides the underlying effects. There is no way via ACT to switch between the chain parameters and the constituent effects. Even if we did that (which would be complex) it would be pretty confusing to know what the current context was via an act surface."
 
http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2407093
 
I understand the thinking behind FX Chains being a composite object in the context of the FX bin. But ideally this philosophy should be updated for the context of the ProChannel. In an FX bin, there's no other reason to have them. But in the ProChannel they serve a wider purpose, which is surely to provide a way to insert regular VST's in the channel. After all this is the only way to use regular VST's in the ProChannel. Therefore, any VST's within the ProChannel should be treated as VST's anywhere else, i.e. effects in their own right and not just part of some composite object. Of course the "composite object" convenience is still there if you need it. 
 
I'm not a programmer and even if I was I would have no idea of the way these things are implemented in Sonar at the code level, but I'm having trouble imagining why it would be complex or confusing for Sonar to know what the "current context" was via an ACT surface. After all, how is the current context decided in other cases? By whatever is in focus? Surely FX Chain VST's in the ProChannel can be given focus too - you can select them within the ProChannel, or you can open their GUI's and click on them. 
 

Anderton

dubdisciple
ACT drives me nuts.  Every now and then I can get things setup the way i want but then it will just stop working

I have a different way of using ACT that's less sophisticated but a whole lot simpler. You can read about it here. It doesn't solve the FX chain/VST plug-in thing with ACT, it's just an easy way to use ACT.

I went through your instructions and it is indeed easy to set it up like that. It's just a pity I don't use FX bin for my VST's!

Sharke,
 
I nod as I read you're post. You are right. FX Chains in the PC need some work. When the PC was first released, FX Chains weren't included. They were kinda an afterthought and haven't received much love in the PC. Act is one of the things they need. I also think two way control value updates from AND to the VSTs would be useful.
 
With touch, the number of places you might choose to modify a parameter is boundless. It's too much of a pain to remember, oh wait... that is mapped to a PC nob. If you're going to both with nobs in the FX Bins, they should should both Publish and Subscribe. I'm guessing this is tricky since they don't control the VSTs. Perhaps when the FX Chain gets the focus it could poll the VSTs for updates? idk.
 
I also like your idea of a mini chain to save on real-estate in the PC.

Anderton

dubdisciple
ACT drives me nuts.  Every now and then I can get things setup the way i want but then it will just stop working

I have a different way of using ACT that's less sophisticated but a whole lot simpler. You can read about it here. It doesn't solve the FX chain/VST plug-in thing with ACT, it's just an easy way to use ACT.

Thanks.  This approach does work better.  I'm still having a few odd issues and may need to start from scratch. It is a lot closer to being functional.

dubdisciple

Anderton

dubdisciple
ACT drives me nuts.  Every now and then I can get things setup the way i want but then it will just stop working

I have a different way of using ACT that's less sophisticated but a whole lot simpler. You can read about it here. It doesn't solve the FX chain/VST plug-in thing with ACT, it's just an easy way to use ACT.

Thanks.  This approach does work better.  I'm still having a few odd issues and may need to start from scratch. It is a lot closer to being functional.

The conceptual difference is that instead of treating ACT like a dedicated control surface, I treat it as a scratchpad for editing. 90% of the time that's all I really want anyway.