• SONAR
  • Here Are Your Sonar "Tape Varispeed" Solutions - Come and Get 'Em! (p.3)
2014/04/06 15:20:35
Anderton
And now (cue fanfare) - the "tape stop" effect for sound design.
 
It turns out that Sonar already has a real-time, varispeed plug-in for mangling individual clips that your can control with a single knob or via MIDI. However, apparently someone at Cakewalk made a mistake because they labeled it "Dimension Pro," which sounds more like a synthesizer to me. Well, whatever.
 
While not necessarily a total “tape stop” effect (the audio can play back really slowly, but doesn’t come to a complete stop - although there is a workaround I'll describe at the end), you can do continuously variable speed effects in real-time without artifacts and with physical control - great for sound design and general sonic insanity.
 
First, insert the Varispeed - I mean, Dimension Pro - plug-in. Then, drag the clip you want to mangle into the Load Multisample field (just below the four element selection buttons), and do the following steps.
 
1. Set the Bend Dn/Up parameters to 24 for the most extreme effects.
2. Draw a MIDI note at C5 (or a different note if you want the clip to start off transposed) where you want the clip to start playback in Dimension Pro’s piano roll view, and extend the note for the clip’s duration.
3. Your keyboard’s Pitch Bend wheel will now do real-time varispeed control over a four-octave range.
 
It gets even better if you use the lo-fi, drive, and other processing options. This technique also works with Rapture, which opens up even more possibilities. (Although you can use the LE versions of Dimension Pro and Rapture, unfortunately their pitch bend range is limited to +/-2 semitones, so you can't get the same drama level for mangling the sound.)
 
As to the tape stop, you can assign the mod wheel to volume in Dimension Pro or Rapture. So, when the sound gets really slow, goose the mod wheel to turn off the volume and mute the sound. But it comes pretty close to slowing down to zero anyway, especially if you use the shift or transpose controls to shift the pitch bend range even lower.
 
Overall I think you'll find that bringing a clip into Dimension Pro or Rapture gives a lot of options.
 
But wait! There's more! Dim Pro has four elements (and Rapture has six) so you can load up to four files, each with independent pitch bend ranges but which you can have respond to the same pitch bend control (and mod wheel if desired).
 
It's a beautiful thing  
 
2014/04/06 15:27:30
Anderton
As to the "how do I overdub an instrument that's slightly out of tune" question, I edited post #4 to include some extra info and now I believe that information is sufficient to figure out how to shift the song to match the tuning of the out of tune instrument, then shift it back down again.
 
2014/04/06 15:29:27
scook
Anderton
 
But wait! There's more! Dim Pro has four elements (and Rapture has six) so you can load up to four files, each with independent pitch bend ranges but which you can have respond to the same pitch bend control (and mod wheel if desired).


This may be a case where the multitimbral mode in DimPro and Rapture may be useful too.
2014/04/06 15:31:26
Anderton
scook
This may be a case where the multi-timbral feature in DimPro and Rapture may be useful too.



The mind boggles. I've always just driven the four elements from the same controller.
2014/04/06 15:39:01
Anderton
And finally...about the "Chipmunk" effect. Here's an update of what was presented in the other thread that lets you "play" the vocal.
 
1. Create a premix of your tracks. Mute the other tracks.
2. (This step is optional if you’re nostalgic for the octave-down sound that happened when singing along with tape.) Transpose the premix down 12 semitones with Process > Transpose. The premix will sound pretty bad.
3. Snap the premix to a specific number of measures. Ctrl-click the end of the premix and drag to exactly twice the number of measures (e.g., if there were 90 measures, you'd drag to the beginning of measure 182).
4. The preview will now be twice as long and sound nasty, so bounce it to itself to render using the iZotope Mix algorithm.
5. Sing along with the premix and record your vocal.
6. Split the vocal at the exact start. Discard what comes before, then choose Clips > Apply Trimming to the vocal itself.
7. Don't transpose the vocal up +12. Instead, open up Session Drummer 3, and drag the clip onto the kick drum. Then switch to the SD3 Mixer page, and change the kick drum Tune control to +12. This cuts the clip length in half and transposes it up an octave.
10. Trigger the drum when you want to bring in the vocal.
 
After Step 5, you can also transpose up an octave using the techniques described previously for the Loop Construction window and obtain higher quality (don't forget to slip-edit the clip to the beginning, and bounce). Either way, the result sounds pretty much exactly like the tape-based chipmunk effect.
2014/04/06 15:40:42
Anderton
bobguitkillerleft
Hi,
Thanks a bunch for these instructions, for ages I've been wondering how to do exactly this in Sonar.
Of course putting it all into practice may be another thing ,but at least we now have the knowledge direct!
Thanks again
Bob



It's really not that hard. Try the exercise in post #1 to get a feel for the process.
2014/04/06 16:00:20
BenMMusTech
Ok I'm going to sound ungrateful but it's still not what we asked for Craig. I've known about the work arounds for many years I've been using Sonar for over 12 years. I just want a shiny button that does what I ask. As a sonic painter sculptor, no offense, I don't want to piss around by placing a sample into Dim Pro. Dim pro is alright but it's convoluted to say the least and this is someone who uses granular synthesis and can use modular synthesis. In fact I don't use dim pro anymore because I have notion 3 for my orchestral stuff which is better because u can write articulations in rather than waste time looking for or worse having to pay for those articulations via samples.

I know all about groove looping and theoretically u could use it for vari speed, heck u can uses VVocal to achieve time stretching and even though it creates digital artefacts it becomes a new sonic technique. I also know about the time stretching plug too. I suspect melodyne has a way too and I've used Audio Snap to achieve new types of the slow effect and created new timbre giving me another digital sonic technique.

I've asked for a button ala Logic and Cubase and Reaper these program's have done it now: we the people demand Sonar do so as well. I smell something fishy. There is overwhelming consensus that we want a vari speed button, big discussion including u. Then by magic Cakewalks trouble shooter on the forum comes along and says here you go. Discussion gets bumped and we start talking about these techniques that have been a part of Sonar all along it's just we aren't smart enough to know they were there all along.

Let Cakewalk do something useful is your argument and theirs. But what could be more useful? Sonar is almost perfect apart from Vari speed and what would be nice is some jam over LAN and Internet facility. What Sonar doesn't need is more plugs or another GUI update. I've upgraded to X3 and personally I'm somewhat disappointed. X2 was worth the update the console emulators were worth my bucks but the tape sim is not brilliant it's alright but not brilliant I suspect it's the same code from the original tape sim plug with some fancy new clothes. The Nomad stuff is not good it's just pretty wallpaper. I've heard and used the UAD Pultec and now had a listen to the Nomad one. The UAD one gives a small bump at 100 hz when you place it over the program material and the Nomad one does not. I know which one I prefer.

I keep quiet these days let the fools eat their dry bread thinking it is "Cake" I say! I know I should have stuck with X2 and spent my 99 bucks on the Waves reel ADT which would have been more useful for my uni work than anything in X3. But u know what I believe in brand loyalty!

What I see here Craig and I told Noël, I'm a keen observer and student of politics. I also spend my days at present in the library researching the history of Sonic Arts, which is what we are all participating in via Sonar. I know when I'm being sold dry bread and water. I know that u are Cakewalks flim flam man. I know you are a nice person I know you are highly knowledgable and therefore everybody respects you and goes wow when u speak. U deserve that but I also know a card trick when I see one too!!

I've also learnt a trick or too, too! I now know not to insult u but to point out the flaws in your arguments and to play nice. I'm going to be howled down for saying my piece and speaking my mind. But fools don't like being told their fools and being tricked by smoke and mirrors. I've spent too long in institutional learning though and it is my obligation to point out you know what your being played.

Ben
2014/04/06 16:43:31
John
Ben back off a little. When someone posts solutions for a feature that may help those needing to actually do or finish a song don't attack them for trying to help. Mr. Anderton has never said that he is in opposition to your feature request, rather he has gone to some trouble to offer solutions in the mean time. 
 
BTW he does not work for Cakewalk. He is with Gibson. As far as I am concerned I value his contributions to this forum far more than anything you have ever written.
2014/04/06 16:51:22
declan
Wow Craig!  Very nice!
2014/04/06 17:24:34
BenMMusTech
John
Ben back off a little. When someone posts solutions for a feature that may help those needing to actually do or finish a song don't attack them for trying to help. Mr. Anderton has never said that he is in opposition to your feature request, rather he has gone to some trouble to offer solutions in the mean time. 
 
BTW he does not work for Cakewalk. He is with Gibson. As far as I am concerned I value his contributions to this forum far more than anything you have ever written.




John, I am endeavouring to play nice, Cakewalk is now owned by Gibson.  There is a connection. I'm just joining the dots, and saying there is something going on.  That's what I'm good at, that's what I am trained to do.  I'm a better academic, than audio engineer Lol.  I accept that Craig contributes and has posted more useful information than I.  But what I do, is see through the advertising and ask for the truth.
 
Although I have used inflammatory language toward Craig, I in know means was attacking him/you.  As a politician which I am these days, although I'm not affiliated to any party or believe in any left right paradigm, I know how to use language to elicit my point.  Which is all I have done.  Again I meant know offense Craig, or to you John.  I'm older, smarter and wiser.  I just want to see a feature that would be useful to all, implemented rather than more of the same. 
 
I love Sonar, I've come around to the X series but I need this feature to continue to work with this program, and I think a few others would find it very useful.  As a student and I hate saying this, of Sonic Arts, I know how important production techniques like vari speed are and how important it is to implement them in the way they were used originally.  I think that is my point.
 
Mea Culpa Ben   
  
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