Sorry and I just want emphasise something I wrote too: Sonar is pretty much perfect, it is rock solid and has a full complement of effects and instruments.  Yes I said Dim Pro was average and convoluted but it is an amazing piece of kit to come with a DAW, as a part of the package.  And the Pro Channel stuff, even though the Tape Sim is alright not brilliant, is also fantastic.  So much so I gave away DSP cards because the Pro Channel stuff added enough flavour to make me happy. 
 
Ben 

BenMMusTech
Ok I'm going to sound ungrateful but it's still not what we asked for Craig.

 
It's not what you asked for. Based on the comments in this thread (yours notwithstanding), I've presented solutions that take care of a lot of the reasons for which people want varispeed...including sound design through the use of Dim Pro's less-explored features. For example if someone used only Dim Pro LE and graduated to the full version, they might not even know you can do +/-24 semitone pitch shifting because the LE version can't.
 

I smell something fishy.

 
I've spent the past several hours today, and much of yesterday, sitting in my home studio trying to help fellow users, as well as come up with techniques I can use for my own music and write about for my Sound on Sound column. If that's a conspiracy theory, it's pretty boring.
 

There is overwhelming consensus that we want a vari speed button, big discussion including u.

 
That's your interpretation of the comments; my interpretation is that there is an overwhelming consensus that people want to implement particular functions that can be done with varispeed. There's a difference. Not everyone uses varispeed the way you do. I'd bet most people want to use it to do the pitched vocal overdub or "speed up the mix" functionality, and Sonar does both quite well. Not to mention "Alvin and the Chipmunks" imitations...
 

Then by magic Cakewalks troubleshooter on the forum comes along and says here you go.

 
I am not a Cakewalk employee.
 
I try to be a troubleshooter for the community, as do many other people here, and uphold its reputation as a place where users help other users to get the most out of their software and have an enjoyable experience making music. I have been doing this for over a decade.
 

Discussion gets bumped and we start talking about these techniques that have been a part of sonar all along it's just we aren't smart enough to know they were there all along.

 
You're the one saying people aren't smart enough, not me. People see something called "loop construction window" and they think it's for loop construction. That's not being stupid, that's knowing how to read. I've gotten into the Loop Construction window in depth, I've presented what I've learned, and I hope the people reading what I've presented will be able to use it to good effect in their music. Frankly, a lot of what I wrote about I didn't know until yesterday. But, I couldn't resist the challenge of seeing if there were ways to do what people wanted.
 
Just because scook and FBB give tips I don't know about doesn't mean they think I'm stupid. At least I don't think they do... 

Let Cakewalk do something useful is your argument and yours. But what could be more useful?

 
I can't tell you what's planned for Sonar X4 but IMHO I would consider what's being discussed as being more relevant to more people than a single varispeed knob, many (if not most) of whose most popular functions can be done in Sonar with a little effort.
 

Sonar is almost perfect apart from Vari speed and what would be nice is some jam over LAN and Internet facility.

 
There are latency issues with real-time internet jamming that no one has solved yet, although many have tried. I don't foresee that being solved any time soon but would love to be proven wrong about this.
 

What Sonar doesn't need is more plugs or another GUI update....the tape sim is not brilliant it's alright but not brilliant I suspect it's the same code from the original tape sim plug with some fancy new clothes.

 
It's not, it's made by an entirely different company. The marquee features in X3 - ARA integration and Melodyne, VST3 support, Addictive Drums, EQ spectrum analyzer flyout, and comping - have been extremely well-received by the majority of users. Not all updates will be relevant to all people.

I keep quiet these days let the fools eat their dry bread thinking it is Cake I say!

 
I do not agree that the people on these forums are fools.

What I see here Craig and I told Noël I'm a keen observer and student of Politics. I also spend my days at present in the library researching the history of Sonic Arts which is what we are all participating in via Sonar. I know when I'm being sold dry bread and water. I know that u are Cakewalks flim flam man. I know you are a nice person I know you are highly knowledgable and therefore everybody respects you and goes wow when u speak. U deserve that but I also know a card trick when I see one too!!

 
I spent a lot of time QCing these techniques to make sure they'd work and people could use them. Tell me what I've presented that doesn't work, and doesn't provide solutions for specific functions that people want to be able to do with Sonar. Then you can say it's a trick.

I've also learnt a trick or too, too! I now know not to insult u but to point out the flaws in your arguments and to play nice. I'm going to be howled down for saying my piece and speaking my mind. But fools don't like being told their fools and being tricked by smoke and mirrors. I've spent too long in institutional learning though and it is my obligation to point out you know what your being played.

 
I'd prefer that your obligation be to recognize the reality of the situation. If you want to ascribe dark motives to my actions you're entitled to your own opinion. However, the reality is really quite simple:
 

• Sonar does not have a dedicated varispeed function, yet based on a thread started in this forum, it seemed a significant number of people wanted functions obtainable with varispeed.
• I have presented solutions for how most of these functions can be implemented with Sonar's existing tools. People don't have to wait for some update or transfer files to other programs, they can now obtain these functions in Sonar if they didn't know how to before.

 
It really is that simple.

Jlien X
Before reading and trying all these steps, I'd like to know if the workarounds are available in Sonar X3......yes, I mean "Sonar X3"--the base version, which doesn't include Audio Snap.

Actually, it just occurred to me that I don't know if the basic X3 includes the iZotope transposition algorithm, so the "bounce to clip for higher fidelity" may not be possible. I tested all of these techniques in the Producer edition. Can anyone with X3 verify whether you can do Process > Transpose and select different algorithms for transposing audio? Although those algorithms are used by AudioSnap, hopefully they're available for general-purpose bouncing.

Anderton

BenMMusTech
Ok I'm going to sound ungrateful but it's still not what we asked for Craig.

 
It's not what you asked for. Based on the comments in this thread (yours notwithstanding), I've presented solutions that take care of a lot of the reasons for which people want varispeed...including sound design through the use of Dim Pro's less-explored features. For example if someone used only Dim Pro LE and graduated to the full version, they might not even know you can do +/-24 semitone pitch shifting because the LE version can't.
 

I smell something fishy.

 
I've spent the past several hours today, and much of yesterday, sitting in my home studio trying to help fellow users, as well as come up with techniques I can use for my own music and write about for my Sound on Sound column. If that's a conspiracy theory, it's pretty boring.
 

There is overwhelming consensus that we want a vari speed button, big discussion including u.

 
That's your interpretation of the comments; my interpretation is that there is an overwhelming consensus that people want to implement particular functions that can be done with varispeed. There's a difference. Not everyone uses varispeed the way you do. I'd bet most people want to use it to do the pitched vocal overdub or "speed up the mix" functionality, and Sonar does both quite well. Not to mention "Alvin and the Chipmunks" imitations...
 

Then by magic Cakewalks troubleshooter on the forum comes along and says here you go.

 
I am not a Cakewalk employee.
 
I try to be a troubleshooter for the community, as do many other people here, and uphold its reputation as a place where users help other users to get the most out of their software and have an enjoyable experience making music. I have been doing this for over a decade.
 

Discussion gets bumped and we start talking about these techniques that have been a part of sonar all along it's just we aren't smart enough to know they were there all along.

 
You're the one saying people aren't smart enough, not me. People see something called "loop construction window" and they think it's for loop construction. That's not being stupid, that's knowing how to read. I've gotten into the Loop Construction window in depth, I've presented what I've learned, and I hope the people reading what I've presented will be able to use it to good effect in their music. Frankly, a lot of what I wrote about I didn't know until yesterday. But, I couldn't resist the challenge of seeing if there were ways to do what people wanted.
 
Just because scook and FBB give tips I don't know about doesn't mean they think I'm stupid. At least I don't think they do... 

Let Cakewalk do something useful is your argument and yours. But what could be more useful?

 
I can't tell you what's planned for Sonar X4 but IMHO I would consider what's being discussed as being more relevant to more people than a single varispeed knob, many (if not most) of whose most popular functions can be done in Sonar with a little effort.
 

Sonar is almost perfect apart from Vari speed and what would be nice is some jam over LAN and Internet facility.

 
There are latency issues with real-time internet jamming that no one has solved yet, although many have tried. I don't foresee that being solved any time soon but would love to be proven wrong about this.
 

What Sonar doesn't need is more plugs or another GUI update....the tape sim is not brilliant it's alright but not brilliant I suspect it's the same code from the original tape sim plug with some fancy new clothes.

 
It's not, it's made by an entirely different company. The marquee features in X3 - ARA integration and Melodyne, VST3 support, Addictive Drums, EQ spectrum analyzer flyout, and comping - have been extremely well-received by the majority of users. Not all updates will be relevant to all people.

I keep quiet these days let the fools eat their dry bread thinking it is Cake I say!

 
I do not agree that the people on these forums are fools.

What I see here Craig and I told Noël I'm a keen observer and student of Politics. I also spend my days at present in the library researching the history of Sonic Arts which is what we are all participating in via Sonar. I know when I'm being sold dry bread and water. I know that u are Cakewalks flim flam man. I know you are a nice person I know you are highly knowledgable and therefore everybody respects you and goes wow when u speak. U deserve that but I also know a card trick when I see one too!!

 
I spent a lot of time QCing these techniques to make sure they'd work and people could use them. Tell me what I've presented that doesn't work, and doesn't provide solutions for specific functions that people want to be able to do with Sonar. Then you can say it's a trick.

I've also learnt a trick or too, too! I now know not to insult u but to point out the flaws in your arguments and to play nice. I'm going to be howled down for saying my piece and speaking my mind. But fools don't like being told their fools and being tricked by smoke and mirrors. I've spent too long in institutional learning though and it is my obligation to point out you know what your being played.

 
I'd prefer that your obligation be to recognize the reality of the situation. If you want to ascribe dark motives to my actions you're entitled to your own opinion. However, the reality is really quite simple:
 

• Sonar does not have a dedicated varispeed function, yet based on a thread started in this forum, it seemed a significant number of people wanted functions obtainable with varispeed.
• I have presented solutions for how most of these functions can be implemented with Sonar's existing tools. People don't have to wait for some update or transfer files to other programs, they can now obtain these functions in Sonar if they didn't know how to before.

 
It really is that simple.

My point Craig is everyone has an agenda, mine is vari speed and next LAN and Internet jamming.  I want innovation, I'm an innovator, most will call me a self-serving over educated twat who has an inflated ego and overbearing opinion of their own merge talent LOL, you see what I did there?  I can look at everyone's opinion and asses, then sum those ideas together.  Then I can analyse and paraphrase those ideas.  And somewhere in the middle is the truth.  It is always in the middle that we find ourselves, and the truth is nothing more than a self-serving opinion.
 
Cakewalk want's to be an innovative product, then it needs to push these two ideas that I am proposing.  Not give us more of the same.  Sure Addictive Drums look nice, I haven't had a use for them yet, I will sooner or later.  The Quad EQ sounds good too.  The rest of the enhancements are nickel and dime stuff.
 
Cakewalk has been very innovative with the introduction of the Pro Channel stuff, the SSL, 1176 emulators are very musical ie: very useable. With some enhancements I think the tape sim can also be a winner.  Lets see it expanded, so it can be used as a tape delay, lets see it expanded so it can accommodate my vari speed, lets see it expanded so it can be used as a Frippertronics effect.  What I don't want is what it is now, the old tape sim plug dressed in new clothes.
 
Again, I am a big advocate of Sonar, and I am moving up in the world.  I'm at one of the best conservatorium's here in Oz (Honours, next year fingers crossed PHD).  If fact if you believe the blurb and I do, it is the top music research faculty in Oz and in fact has the biggest music library in the southern hemisphere.  So when I talk to my supervisors about Sonar their ears prick up and they start to question why is Ben advocating Sonar to the point he is?  I use Pro Tools, it's the industry standard, I use Live because it really is good at live lol, and on it goes. 
 
I advocate this program because I have used every program in the book apart from Live, although I have looked at Live and it look like someone had puked and I was suppose to mix and make music in puke. LOL.  Nothing comes close to having a feeling of a mixing desk in a studio.  It's why I have stuck with it plus the other factors I have already mentioned.
 
I'm going to have to look at Bitwig because it says it has perfected LAN jamming and there is a way maybe not in real time to work over the internet on projects.  Very handy if you want to beam concrete sounds for live performance's. 
 
If I can move up in the academic world, which is the plan.  I will be advocating a revolution here in Oz, I may not be able to take Pro Fools out but I think we can convince academics that Sonar is the best music production software for actual composition.  But only if we can keep up with the competitors.  
 
This means, Sonar needs to fix the matrix view (although I haven't had a chance to look at in X3, but it still needs some of Live's, time stretching enhancements and a DJ style AB listening function.  LAN and internet jamming and most importantly A BIG RED VARI SPEED BUTTON!  It's a shame that Cake missed the boat when Notion was snapped up by Presonus.  But I suppose this is what happens when a company is software only and does not have the resources to bid.
 
Again Craig, your obviously a nice guy doing your best to help, but don't tell me you don't have an agenda and I work at Gibson, not Cakewalk.  The companies are married now.  One company doesn't have to worry about it's junior partner (it isn't Gibsons bread and butter) but the junior partner is just that junior.  You have more power than you let on.  This is your baby.  Your name is everywhere on this forum. Again, I am only reporting what I observe.
 
Cheers Ben
 
Oh I forgot touch screen implementation.  I'm getting use to this, it's still in it's infancy but it eliminates all this Ipad controller stuff.

Thanks for all your enthusiasm over the past 40 years of my life, Craig! I find it quite nice that you are such a contributor to my musical world and learning, and am really glad that you are such a Sonar fan/whiz/power user, and share so much of that here. I am delighted to read all of your suggestions/explanations/explorations of ANY of Sonar's or it's included extras.
 
I am in the habit of stepping around crap when I see it! How dull....
Damn the torpedoes.... what ever else you think up, I'll be eager to read. Whatever the bakers cook up for X4, I am certain that I will be excited about it and eager to upgrade, again. I like that my investment in Cakewalk contributes to them coming up with more fabulous tools for me to play/work/create and plain have a great time with!
Michael

@BenMMusTech
 
As an academic myself, I would strongly advise you to ask your supervisor/tutor to read your comments on/contributions to this thread, before posting again.
 
He/she may well be able to offer you some constructive criticism/support.

BenMMusTech
Don't tell me you don't have an agenda and I work at Gibson, not Cakewalk.  The companies are married now.

 
For the record I spend the vast majority of my time on Gibson matters. Cakewalk can take care of itself, is located in a different state, and has its own offices. Of course I want Cakewalk to be successful, but I wanted Cakewalk to be successful long before Gibson purchased the company.
 

You have more power than you let on.  This is your baby.  Your name is everywhere on this forum. Again, I am only reporting what I observe.

 
If all you observe is this forum, which is an extremely limited data set, then I understand why you draw the conclusions you do. But Cakewalk is not my baby. The Bakers are very much in control although they remain attentive to my ideas...as they have since Sonar first appeared and I switched to it from what I had been using. It's more like Cakewalk is my neighbors' baby, so I get to see it grow and do cute things but without having to change the diapers
 

Oh I forgot touch screen implementation.  I'm getting use to this, it's still in it's infancy but it eliminates all this Ipad controller stuff.

 
Sonar has touch screen implementation with Windows 8.1.

My point Craig is everyone has an agenda, mine is vari speed and next LAN and Internet jamming. I want innovation, I'm an innovator, most will call me a self-serving over educated twat who has an inflated ego and overbearing opinion of their own merge talent LOL, you see what I did there? I can look at everyone's opinion and asses, then sum those ideas together. Then I can analyse and paraphrase those ideas. And somewhere in the middle is the truth. It is always in the middle that we find ourselves, and the truth is nothing more than a self-serving opinion.

You do have a high opinion of yourself that has always been clear. You appear to be a student not an academic as you claim. Further your grammar is suspect. You use "know" for the word no. You use "your" which is "belonging to" instead of you're meaning "you are".  You also claim to be a politician. Are you in some sort of elected office? If not you may aspire to being a politician but at present you are not. 
 
There is nothing wrong in asking for a feature. I support most feature requests posted on this forum even if I have no real use for it. Why? Because its important for members to support one another when ever possible. Mr. Anderton has been on this forum as long as I have. long before he became employed by Gibson.  To my knowledge he has never worked for Cakewalk.  Yet he has made a living authoring articles about Sonar for many years. I know him as an author first a musician second and a very good friend to this forum.  
 
Other can testify to his helpfulness over the years. What is clear is he helps you complain. 
 
If anyone has an agenda it is you sir. Though its difficult to flesh it out it is not impossible. At present I don't know for sure  what it is but I suspect some things.
 
 
   

John

My point Craig is everyone has an agenda, mine is vari speed and next LAN and Internet jamming. I want innovation, I'm an innovator, most will call me a self-serving over educated twat who has an inflated ego and overbearing opinion of their own merge talent LOL, you see what I did there? I can look at everyone's opinion and asses, then sum those ideas together. Then I can analyse and paraphrase those ideas. And somewhere in the middle is the truth. It is always in the middle that we find ourselves, and the truth is nothing more than a self-serving opinion.

You do have a high opinion of yourself that has always been clear. You appear to be a student not an academic as you claim. Further your grammar is suspect. You use "know" for the word no. You use "your" which is "belonging to" instead of you're meaning "you are".  You also claim to be a politician. Are you in some sort of elected office? If not you may aspire to being a politician but at present you are not. 
 
There is nothing wrong in asking for a feature. I support most feature requests posted on this forum even if I have no real use for it. Why? Because its important for members to support one another when ever possible. Mr. Anderton has been on this forum as long as I have. long before he became employed by Gibson.  To my knowledge he has never worked for Cakewalk.  Yet he has made a living authoring articles about Sonar for many years. I know him as an author first a musician second and a very good friend to this forum.  
 
Other can testify to his helpfulness over the years. What is clear is he helps you complain. 
 
If anyone has an agenda it is you sir. Though its difficult to flesh it out it is not impossible. At present I don't know for sure  what it is but I suspect some things.
 
 
   

Look over the years when you want to bring me down after I have made a post, you aim for my grammar.  And as I have made plain over and over again, I am not going to sit here and edit a post on a forum as if it were a thesis.  Man get a grip John, sure attack my point of view but don't be small and attack my grammar.
 
Second I have agenda, its the big red button!  I've made it plain and clear I haven't hidden behind the veneer of "niceness" and "helpfulness"  The techniques Craig has come up with aren't new, I knew about them but it is easier to just bounce everything out and use Reaper at the moment.  I'm not sure about the algorithms but a lot of the techniques because of the Isotope algorithms aren't good enough and do add artefacts.  Nice if you want to use them as an effect but damaging if you want a clean vari speed effect.
 
Ok I'm a trainee academic, sorry I will be more concise with my language in the future and I will not claim titles that I am not entitled to until I have a right to claim them.  Again a small man with small ideas will use this to debase my arguments.  And JB I will speak to my supervisor about this tomorrow, I have a meeting with him.  He likes that I have opinions, whether right or wrong. 
 
A politician John isn't just an elected official, it can also be someone with a propensity to verbosity who advocates on the behalf of others and uses a public forum to do so!!  You did not vote for me, I don't believe in Democracy in it's present form anyway.  It's a diluted form of democracy that advocates two ideas ie: in America Democrap and Replicarse!!  
 
Again my agenda is a big red button, tear down the system and become a Dr of Music (Sonic Arts).  Not necessary in that order, can you please enlighten me as to what other agenda I have John?  I wouldn't mind a Knighthood as well :) true!! 
 
I'm in a good space, I don't need anymore intellectual discourse but Im not going to have a "good" Samaritan skew our discussion and say ah ha I have solved the problem, when in fact he hasn't.  And because he is Craig.A everybody goes yea man!!  Sounds like religion to me.
 
My beef isn't with you Craig, it is that you are leading people down the garden path with a false solution.  Just remember with great power comes great responsibility ;).
 
Ben    

The fact that you wont edit your posts before posting shows little respect for those that read them. I consider the people on this forum deserve the best I can do in posting. It is a communication that I want others to fully understand and not trip over my poor grammar. Though I am not perfect in this regard, but then, I don't call myself an academic either. 
 
You need to stop with this and simply submit a feature request and get others to do the same. This will be far more effective then trying to make a battle you can't win.  Although you may not like what Mr. Anderton has offered I'm sure others are very appreciative of what he is doing. I sure am.