I'm usually silent in most posts I read but I want to comment here. This...controversy, if it can be called that...is about software, MUSIC software. Everyone's opinion is valid except those that are disingenuous. By that I mean those who seek importance and notoriety from being contrary. It is not a sign of intelligence or a special gift to assume there is a conspiracy behind every corner. Sonar does not have Varispeed. Until it does, use Craig's method, or, get new software.......(or lower the songs key by a 1/2 step). 

I think Craig has done a pretty OK job in coming up with solutions to the concept of varispeed. Does it matter too much how you get there as long as you get there.
 
I just want to mention that in Studio One this process is also quite easy too and that Craig's ideas have inspired me to investigate the process in another DAW.  I am only mentioning this because I am sure that the same principle can be applied in Sonar as well.
 
Vari speeding an entire mix in Studio One can be achieved by firstly bouncing the entire mix. That file can be sent to Sample One with one mouse click. An instance of Sample One gets created and the whole mix ends up on the C3 note. Playing that note triggers the enitre mix back as one would expect. Playing any other note transposes the mix and alters its length as per a real tape machine. (Smooth) pitch bending can now be applied up to two octaves above or below. Some quite incredible effects can be obtained this way.
 
A mix could be played back on Bb3 for example which means it is now 2 semitones down. (and longer) Parts can also be recorded along with this new mix. The parts can also be easily transposed up 2 semitones the same way using Sample One. Single audio clips can be processed the same way too. The cool thing about the sampler concept is the precise nature of playing a mix or a part back an exact semitone (or several) shift at a time.
 
I am only mentioning this because it seems to me to be a very good way to go about it. ie the sampler concept. So I am guessing the same applies in terms of Sonar and Dimension Pro/Rapture etc..I also have an EMU hardware sampler from the good ol days and still love and use it. It does all this too rather easily but now we have the same processes available inside our DAW's
 
BTW Craig did you write the original manuals for EMU samplers. Because I have had many of them (and still do, only one now a fully optioned E5000) and I have always found the manuals to be very very very well written. I heard at one point you may have been responsible for that. Because if you did thanks so much for making such an amazing complex machine so damn easy to use!

twisted6s
I'm usually silent in most posts I read but I want to comment here. This...controversy, if it can be called that...is about software, MUSIC software. Everyone's opinion is valid except those that are disingenuous. By that I mean those who seek importance and notoriety from being contrary. It is not a sign of intelligence or a special gift to assume there is a conspiracy behind every corner. Sonar does not have Varispeed. Until it does, use Craig's method, or, get new software.......(or lower the songs key by a 1/2 step). 

I wish I could flag this as helpful a second time... when I get into threads like this I wonder "how did we get here??" Twisted6s has a very good point of the difference between arguing (to make a point) and being contrary. Maybe it is best to simply leave it at that, but also of note is simple "tone" in how things are expressed.

Jeff Evans
I think Craig has done a pretty OK job in coming up with solutions to the concept of varispeed. Does it matter too much how you get there as long as you get there.
 
I just want to mention that in Studio One this process is also quite easy too and that Craig's ideas have inspired me to investigate the process in another DAW.  I am only mentioning this because I am sure that the same principle can be applied in Sonar as well.
 
Vari speeding an entire mix in Studio One can be achieved by firstly bouncing the entire mix. That file can be sent to Sample One with one mouse click. An instance of Sample One gets created and the whole mix ends up on the C3 note. Playing that note triggers the enitre mix back as one would expect. Playing any other note transposes the mix and alters its length as per a real tape machine. (Smooth) pitch bending can now be applied up to two octaves above or below. Some quite incredible effects can be obtained this way.
 
A mix could be played back on Bb3 for example which means it is now 2 semitones down. (and longer) Parts can also be recorded along with this new mix. The parts can also be easily transposed up 2 semitones the same way using Sample One. Single audio clips can be processed the same way too. The cool thing about the sampler concept is the precise nature of playing a mix or a part back an exact semitone (or several) shift at a time.
 
I am only mentioning this because it seems to me to be a very good way to go about it. ie the sampler concept. So I am guessing the same applies in terms of Sonar and Dimension Pro/Rapture etc..I also have an EMU hardware sampler from the good ol days and still love and use it. It does all this too rather easily but now we have the same processes available inside our DAW's
 
BTW Craig did you write the original manuals for EMU samplers. Because I have had many of them (and still do, only one now a fully optioned E5000) and I have always found the manuals to be very very very well written. I heard at one point you may have been responsible for that. Because if you did thanks so much for making such an amazing complex machine so damn easy to use!

Hi Jeff, in all fairness it is not!  You of all people should understand what I am up to in regards to this.  I want a simple solution ala The Beatles.  It is an important technique in our sonic arsenal which because of our DAW's we lost.  Now we can regain this important "tape" effect.  It has so many uses, which are too numerous to mention. 
 
Ok back to researching Auto-Destruct Rock, which I think the music industry today needs a good dose of today, in fact I am designing an audio sculpture at the moment-to destroy as my own at attempt!! :)
 
Ben 

Ben, have you filed a Feature Request for this?  As was mentioned previously, simply requesting it in a forum thread will not get it done.  Endlessly repeating it (the "big red button") in a forum thread will not get it done.  Attempting to turn a few well documented methods for accomplishing the desired end result, in today's SONAR, into something negative will not get it done.  And will obviously make the remainder of your posts that much less effective.  Politician?   If so, me thinks you need a little more work...   
 
Yes, I would like a vari-speed slider (not button) similar to Reaper.   But guess what?  Even if it were added in X4, we're probably a ways off from that, much less X5 or later.   So what to do until then?   Yeah, Craig's methods look very good to me.  I certainly would not have thought to specifically use the Loop Construction View for this purpose... did you?
 

BenMMusTech
My beef isn't with you Craig, it is that you are leading people down the garden path with a false solution.  Just remember with great power comes great responsibility ;).

 
You referred to the other members of this forum as "fools," and me as a "flam-flam man." You dismissed the QCed, practical procedures I worked on for hours over a weekend, and that DO provide solutions, as "smoke and mirrors" and "tricks." You implied underhandedness by saying you "smelled something fishy" and how you "connected the dots" because "something is going on." You say I'm doing an "advertisement" but you want the "truth," and that I'm "leading people down the garden path" with what you consider a "false solution." (Oddly, they all work here.)
 
There was already a thread about people wanting varispeed. This was a complement to that thread, and its intention was not to provide another place where you could continue pushing a personal agenda. Yet you have selfishly hijacked a thread designed to help people accomplish specific tasks using tools they already have. In the process, you have insulted the people in this forum, myself, and contributed nothing of substance which might benefit others, other than that you seem to feel (if I've deciphered your comments accurately) that transferring a file into Reaper and back into Sonar is superior to transferring a file into Dimension Pro and back into Sonar, or using the loop construction window for a purpose that has nothing to do with loops.
 
Part of my "great responsibility" involves helping people obtain the results they want to obtain and make the music they want to make. I obviously take that responsibility seriously. You appear so self-consumed with your own needs you seem unaware that others have needs as well; just because their needs are different from yours doesn't make them any less important or worthy of my trying to find solutions for them.
 
As I stated before, the reality is quite simple:

• Sonar does not have a dedicated varispeed function, yet based on a thread started in this forum, it seemed a significant number of people wanted functions obtainable with varispeed.
• I have presented solutions for how most of these functions can be implemented with Sonar's existing tools. People don't have to wait for some update or transfer files to other programs, they can now obtain these functions in Sonar if they didn't know how to before.

And that's the truth.
 
However, I will admit I smell something fishy too. That's because I haven't taken the garbage out yet, and I had cod for dinner.

I have still got a few tape machines including a high speed Revox B77 half track machine with a modified varispeed control. (I can varispeed from about 30 IPS down to about 3 3/4 IPS in one smooth motion now with a ten turn pot!) So I can actually transfer stuff to the tape machine and back etc. I just feel the sampler approach in either my Emulator, Studio One's Sample One or both instruments in Sonar should also accomplish a very similar effect. It seems to me to be the closest thing to the tape machine in terms of getting that sound.
 
1  Changing pitch of an entire mix down or up in semitone steps. ie playing back a mix at different transpositions using the sampler functions by playing different notes
 
2  Using the pitch wheel to create smooth sounding bending effects in either direction.
 
3  I am sure using Craig's other approaches are right in the ball park too.
 
Maybe if you try all these approaches you might come away feeling pretty happy that a great varispeed effect can be created.

 
You appear so self-consumed with your own needs you seem unaware that others have needs as well;




Well Craig you are right there, I'm a trainee academic but first and foremost I am a mad, bad and dangerous to know artist to quote Byron!!
 
All I care about at the moment within a tiny sphere and slither of my world is what I am reading, researching, writing and creating.  Humans and their limitations get in the way and bore me.
 
You say I hijacked this thread, you hijacked mine with this thread (and again your work around is not what we asked for!).  Yes I know there is a feature request form but here we are talking about it, not writing out a form where it will be filed in the never, never and the way off land of maybe.  
 
And I never called everyone on this forum a fool, lets just clear that up.  That is slander, hyperbole and just not true.  I called everyone who went yea thank you Craig for what you offered as a "solution" a fool lol!!
 
It has been again, clear what you offered as a "solution" people like myself already knew existed.
 
Steve, there is many types of effective politician, I'm happy to play the fool!!  At least we are talking about it, and we haven't blithely accepted Craig's musings.  I've gone in the great Oliver tradition "please sir can I have some more?" ;)
 
Ben 

Jeff Evans
 
BTW Craig did you write the original manuals for EMU samplers. Because I have had many of them (and still do, only one now a fully optioned E5000) and I have always found the manuals to be very very very well written. I heard at one point you may have been responsible for that. Because if you did thanks so much for making such an amazing complex machine so damn easy to use!

Thank you Jeff, what a pleasant surprise. Yes, I did the Drumulator, Emulator II, Emax, and Emulator III. I also did the manual for Ableton Live V2, and the original manuals for Kontakt, Guitar Rig, Battery, ADAT, Quadrasynth, the Gibson high-tech guitars (which is how my association started), and a bunch of other products from Peavey, Alesis, Akai, etc.
 
Aside from paying the bills, I found writing manuals to be extraordinarily educational. Most of what I learned about MIDI was from having access to E-mu's engineers while writing the Emulator II manual. It also forces you to think logically in terms of which steps follow which other steps.
 
Of course, the hardest part of writing a manual is not having a manual in order to learn about the product!

Jeff Evans
I have still got a few tape machines including a high speed Revox B77 half track machine with a modified varispeed control. (I can varispeed from about 30 IPS down to about 3 3/4 IPS in one smooth motion now with a ten turn pot!) So I can actually transfer stuff to the tape machine and back etc. I just feel the sampler approach in either my Emulator, Studio One's Sample One or both instruments in Sonar should also accomplish a very similar effect. It seems to me to be the closest thing to the tape machine in terms of getting that sound.
 
1  Changing pitch of an entire mix down or up in semitone steps. ie playing back a mix at different transpositions using the sampler functions by playing different notes
 
2  Using the pitch wheel to create smooth sounding bending effects in either direction.
 
3  I am sure using Craig's other approaches are right in the ball park too.
 
Maybe if you try all these approaches you might come away feeling pretty happy that a great varispeed effect can be created.

Nope Jeff, have you tried Reapers Vari speed?? It's a slider and I suspect just like the real thing in implementation.  Rather than pissing around with loops and placing things in samplers, just detune or speed something up, ala The Beatles.  I've used it for vocals, rather than going to the loop window making stereo mixes, you just go you know what I cant sing that high, I might need to play around with the pitch until I get it to the point I can sing it. Simple.  Come on Jeff, we have a lot more in common or a least I used to think so.  Me thinks you may have been talking to Mark!!!  I say stuff all the time without thinking.  I live in my own world (my brain works on a totally different plain and I thought we had worked that out), of art and art is life.
 
Back to Gustav Metzager and blowing **** up in the name of art, out death and kaos come rebirth.  I think is the phrase!!
 
Ben