Hello,
Longtime Home Studio 4 user, first-time poster... A fellow band member and I are interested in collaborating on a few projects. We have essentially the same setup and systems... My question is, what is the best way - in what format (that is easiest to share and work with) - to collaborate on a song project when the intention is to send files back and forth via the internet?
 
My understanding is that if I were to send a Cakewalk Project file (.cwp), it would not include the .wav files that make up each track (I do not know if it would include, for example, the content on EZ Drummer tracks, and midi/synth stuff), and that therefore I would need to send the .wav files, too, and then he'd have to insert them into the appropriate tracks, etc. Another option would be to save the song as Bundle file (.cwb), in which case (my understanding is that) the file would then essentially include everything, but the downside is that it would be a beast (as in "file-size = huge"), and therefore perhaps difficult to send, download, load, etc.
 
If I'm totally off-base here, then please let me know. And even if I'm in the ballpark, I'd be interested in any tips or suggestions users might have on entire process, from save & send (on my end) to load, work with, & send back (on his end).
 
Thanks in advance.

It's not necessary for collaborators to use the same software.  Think about how restrictive that would be if this were the case.  The usual way to work is for each user to maintain their own version of the project and exchange "stems" in the form of WAV files (or some other audio format).  Initially you all need to agree on the tempo, key and sample rate.

Absolutely what Kev wrote. There's usually no need to send the whole project, either.
Establishing your tempo and sample rate up front is crucial.
It's also a good idea to leave a few blank measures at the start of the tracks.
You might want to create a click track with EZ Drummer or Edirol VSC(the GM synth included with SHS4).
Don't use count-in or the regular metronome. The metronome in SHS4 should not record, and if it does, you are set up wrong.
The click track can easily be muted for the final mix.
 
Wav files are the best quality, but are too large for email.
SHS4 supports wma export, and these run a close second.
MP3 is fine for reference tracks, but use higher quality formats for the actual working tracks. If you must send MP3 working tracks, use a high bitrate.
I've been involved with collabs that had as many as a dozen contributors. Keeping the file exchange slim was effective and made the whole thing manageable.
 
One very important thing is to send complete tracks, not clips.
For instance, you have a single triangle hit in measure 96. If you send just a short clip, it will be difficult to line it up.
Export the whole track, including the 95 measures of silence.
It will start at 0.00.00 and all is good.
 
Use "Save As" often, and definitely save a new version after the addition of a new track.
If something doesn't work, you can always back up and try something else.
 
A rough outline of a collab might run something like this:
1.Establish BMP at 110, 4/4 time. 44.1k sample rate, key of C.
2. You record a bass line on track 1, drums on track 2.
3.Export this as a wma or wav file.
3a. If you exported as wav, convert to MP3.
4. email wma or MP3 to your friend.
5.Your friend opens a new, blank project, and imports your file into track 1.
6.He records a guitar track as track 2 in his project.
7. He selects and exports only track 2, and sends it back to you. This should be at least wma or preferably a wav file.
8. You create track 3 in your project, and import his audio track.
And so on. Add individual tracks as the project builds.
Be sure the Now Time marker is at the beginning of the project when you bring in new material. Hit [W] (rewind)first to be sure.
Collabs are a blast. Don't make it harder than it is, and have fun.

As Bob said, email is no good for sending large files. One solution would be to join an online collaboration site and use its facilities to communicate and exchange files.
 
Some online collaboration sites to check out:
http://www.indabamusic.com
http://www.musicianscollaboration.com
http://www.kompoz.com
http://www.digitalmusician.net
http://indiemusicworks.com
 

Thanks for the replies. I did want to point out that while I understand and agree with this...
 

Kev999
It's not necessary for collaborators to use the same software.  Think about how restrictive that would be if this were the case.

 
... I was simply indicating that my friend and I DO in fact have the same software. So I figured that might be helpful information to post.
 
At any rate, thanks for the ideas, especially for the step-by-step posted by RobertB, which looks great for new or very-much-in-progress projects. Right now we're not working on any of those but I do anticipate doing many in the future, so this will be helpful.
 
In my current scenario, I have several songs that are very close to completion, and what I want to do is send them to him so he can 1) experiment with different drum sounds on a few songs (he has many sounds that I do not), 2) add a lead guitar track to a particular song, and 3) mix down the songs in #1 and #2 after he changes drum sounds, adds the lead, etc.
 
I am thinking for songs where I only want him to work on drum sounds, I can save an alternate version of the project and mix all tracks - EXCEPT drums - down to two tracks; a left and a right. Then I could either 1) send him the bundle file, which would only include the two .wav files (plus drums) and would therefore be more manageable when it comes to sending/uploading, or 2) I could send the .wav files and project file separately... Something like that.
 
Thanks again for the replies. If anyone has more ideas & tips based upon the add'l info I provided, fire away!

Any information is helpful.
What Kev was getting at is that we have immense flexibility for collabs, by using fairly universal formats for exchanging audio files. Proprietary files(such as .cwb/cwp) can only be opened with the same software( or at least versions of the same software).
In your case, having the same software is an advantage.
The collective experience here is that sending separate .wav and project files is your best option. Bundle files can be problematic. While I don't recommend using bundle files, I have successfully used them in the past, and it's kind of cool to watch a 40 track bundle unpack into a project.
But it's scary at the same time. If the bundle gets corrupted, you lose it all.
 
Looking forward, you guys might want to consider upgrading to X3. We've come a long way since SHS4.
You would need at least Vista (X3 won't install in XP).
Among other things, X3 includes integrated access to a file sharing service(Gobbler), that would be ideal for collabs where you need to exchange large files.
As registered users, the upgrade price is pretty reasonable.
Definitely worth thinking about.

If you are both using the same software, try not to get bogged down in an endeavour to keep the two versions of the projects in sync.  Also try not to get into major "how to..." discussions.  Communication between collaborators needs to be mostly about musical ideas.
 

It's actually quite simple. 
You use a folder that contains both the CWP and the audio folder. 
This can be done when performing a "save as" and checking the "Copy Audio with project" box. 
If your version has it, using " per project folders" can be used.  
 
CWP files contain all the midi and project info data so it will open with all the bells and whistles you used to make the project. It even remembers things like screen sizing. As long as you're both working in the same audio format like 44.1 all is good. It is best if you both have the same plug ins installed. It can be a small problem if you audio interfaces are radically different as you'll have to re assign inputs and outputs. But I find if the 2 interfaces are similar format say 2x4, then Sonar keeps this straight. 
 
If you live near each other go buy a USB drive to share , this is what I do. A 8 GIG drive will hold a fairly large project. If your using the internet and both have a good connection project files are not that big. They can also be zipped. 
 
I'm working with a person who uses Sonar Producer 8.0 32 bit Scarlett 2i2 interface.
I have Sonar X3 Studio 64 bit Scarlett 6i6 interface. 
There have been no issues with opening the files. Other than one plug in we do not have in common. 
He has Ezdrummer and I use Session drummer. 
He bounced the drum track to audio, but I still inserted Session drummer so I could turn up the kick drum while recording my Bass part for him.
He still has the original project on his computer and when he gets the USB stick back he just drags and drops the Audio or MIDI track I created for him into the original project. As long as the arrangement stays the same he can now ask if I can add other parts. I put these in Dropbox for him to grab. 
 
As said, this is easiest if you keep your tracks complete and not a bunch of clips scattered along the time line. 
 
 

Hi, I'm using CWHS 7.0.1 with a Roland FA-08. My dilema is that I have been using an XP-80 for so long that I don't know anything else. I don't seem to be able to sequence the same way I have been. Quite frankly I am lost!  CWHS 7 has .ins files for a bunch of different instruments. My XP-80 is well represented so I can just go into a midi track and select insert then bank/patch change and I'm off and runnin'. Not so with the FA-08, this is different partially because there is no MIDNAM for it. My question is, how do I tell it ,from my computer, to change to the correct bank and patch? I do realize that some instrument tweaking will have to be done.  I have over 400 songs to redo and I need some help. PLEASE..................thanx

catman your hi jacking someone else s thread you need to start your own thread.
When you do please list your system and equipment so we don't have to ask.
Providing links to what your devices are also saves time for people trying to help. You list a bunch of stuff I've never even heard of as example...