Hi all,
In X2 Producer, I've been playing around with piping oscillators from softsynths into an analog modular to make use of the modular's filters. To do this I set up two midi tracks, one for the softsynth and one to output to the midi to CV converter to drive the modular's envelopes and filter cutoff keytracking.  I then set midi echo to on for both midi tracks so I can play the the VSTi and modular as one instrument.  It works well, but I've noticed that the the midi out to the modular seems to have just slightly lower latency than the audio being sent out from the softsynth.  This shows up when changing pitch on a sustained note.  It can be heard that the envelopes retrigger just before the pitch changes.
 
To remedy this I tried changing changing the ASIO buffer and also the midi record and playback buffers.  Reducing the ASIO buffer helps reduce the problem, but changing (increasing) the midi buffers has no effect when playing live from the keyboard.  I tried bumping the Midi record and playback buffers up from the default 64 and 250 to 128 and 1000.  I did notice that if I record midi data to the midi tracks and then playback the midi tracks everything is pretty much synced together correctly.  So it looks like the midi buffers only have an effect on midi data that is already recorded.  Is there a way to change the midi latency when playing live in X2?
thanks,
Dan

There is a setting called Timing Offset  (not to be confused with "Manual Offset" for adjusting audio recording latency compensation) on the Sync and Caching page of Audio Preferences. It's designed to adjust the timing relationship between MIDI sent to hardware ports and audio tracks (MIDI-driven soft synth output is buffered up in advance and behaves like audio in this respect).
 
Positive values delay audio relative to MIDI which is usually what you want because MIDI transmission delay is usually longer than audio latency and adds to it if you're input-monitoring a hardware synth). In you case, If I'm understanding correctly, you'll need a negative number to delay MIDI relative to audio.
 
Be aware that this setting will also affect where MIDI is laid down whilw recording, because it's essentially shifting the relationship between the MIDI grid and the audio clock (including the audio metronome).
 
 

Is there a way to change the midi latency when playing live in X2?

Yes, all you need to do is lower your ASIO buffers. If its at its lowest, then your PC and/or yourt sound crad drivers are not up to the task. Your need a round trip latency of under 10msecs (give or take) and one way of under 4.5msecs (give or take)
 
Don't forget, that some plugins are not meant for live playing and decorating as they have hidden buffers in them. Those plugins are for mixing.
 
So your problem could be one of those things or both of those things. You should not have to alter your 'timing offset.' I never had to and I can get no audible latency when playing soft synths live and recording soft synths.
 
CJ

brundlefly
There is a setting called Timing Offset  (not to be confused with "Manual Offset" for adjusting audio recording latency compensation) on the Sync and Caching page of Audio Preferences. It's designed to adjust the timing relationship between MIDI sent to hardware ports and audio tracks (MIDI-driven soft synth output is buffered up in advance and behaves like audio in this respect).
 

Thanks for that Brundlefly, I will try that to see if it solves the issue.
Dan

CJaysMusic

Is there a way to change the midi latency when playing live in X2?

Yes, all you need to do is lower your ASIO buffers. If its at its lowest, then your PC and/or yourt sound crad drivers are not up to the task. Your need a round trip latency of under 10msecs (give or take) and one way of under 4.5msecs (give or take)
 
Don't forget, that some plugins are not meant for live playing and decorating as they have hidden buffers in them. Those plugins are for mixing.
 
So your problem could be one of those things or both of those things. You should not have to alter your 'timing offset.' I never had to and I can get no audible latency when playing soft synths live and recording soft synths.
 
CJ

Hi CJ,
Thanks for your reply.  Lowering the ASIO buffers does help, but I start to get clicks and pops every once in a while when the buffers are at the lowest settings.  I believe 8 ms is what I usually leave the buffers at.  I don't have noticeable latency overall, it only shows up in this case where I need fairly exact synchronization between the midi and audio.  This is kind of an extreme case I believe where I'm creating an analog/digital hybrid modular with digital oscillators and analog filters and envelopes.  It shows up when I have a short attack time on the envelops.  You can hear the envelope retrigger on key press but for an instant the previous pitch is still playing.
 
The audio latency isn't noticeable to me in when playing softsynths normally, so accepting a little more midi latency to match the audio doesn't bother me.  By the way the plugin I am using is Rapture which doesn't have any hidden delays (that I know of).  I'm not applying any effects with built in latency such as convolution reverbs or linear phase eq's in this case.
Dan

I tried adjusting the timing offset, but it had no effect when playing live.  It only made a difference to how the midi tracks were recorded and played back.  Unless there is another hidden midi latency adjustment that makes a difference when playing live from the controller, it appears that reducing the ASIO buffer is the only way to achieve what I'm trying to do.  My audio interface, an EMU 1820M will only go down to 2 ms at the minimum setting which almost cures the problem but not quite.  Maybe in the future when I move over to Win7 from XP and try another audio interface, I'll be able to get lower latency.  In the meantime, playing back from previously recorded midi tracks seems to work well.
Dan

I totally missed that you need this to work in real time. Sounds like what you need is a MIDI Delay FX on the MIDI track driving the hardware synth. Unfortunately, SONAR's MIDI Delay FX doesn't let you suppress the original note (i.e. like setting 100% wet on an audio delay), so that won't do it.  You might try Googling for a third-party Delay MFX that can do it.
 
Alternatively, you might do it the brute force way if you have enough MIDI ports available to throw a hardware MIDI loopback into the setup with a second MIDI track relaying the MIDI to the hardware synth. Where there's a will, there's a way.  

Thanks for the suggestion brundlefly.  Yes, I think that would be exactly what I'd need.  I didn't even realize there a was a (perhaps very small) world of midi plug ins out there similar to the world of VST plug ins that exists.  From what I have read so far, it sounds like 3rd party midi fx aren't as common standardized as VST's.  Time to do some more reading...
Dan