• SONAR
  • More confused than ever! Best way to line up a song?
2014/04/07 14:44:47
digimidi
When I'm doing a cover of a tune, I like to use the original recording as a reference to help me build my interpretation of it, especially the drums.  I want the drums, if using drum loops, or a drum plugin, to line up with the song, but of course, the reference song drifts out of tempo.  I'm told that there are different ways of doing this, but what is the fastest and simplest way of doing it.  AudioSnap (which scares me)?  I've watched numerous videos on AudioSnap, Tempo Change, but I'm just not sure what even approach to take with this.  Where do I start?
2014/04/07 15:11:37
Silhan
The way I do this is with the "Set Measure/Beat at Now Time" command (Shift+M).  I start by importing the audio track, setting my cursor on a downbeat near the beginning of the song, pressing Shift+M to open the dialog, entering the correct measure and beat, and then clicking OK.  I skip ahead to the next downbeat and do the same thing.  The tempo should now be approximately correct.  I skip ahead to a place where the audio starts to drift out of sync, go through the same process to line them up again, and keep repeating as necessary until I get to the end of the song.

I don't know if this is the best way, but it works for me.  I'd like to hear what other people do.
2014/04/07 15:38:05
paulo
Silhan
 I'd like to hear what other people do.




Set the tempo to something similar and crack on with it or do at a different tempo altogether. Unless you're going for a note for note exact replica I don't see that it matters too much.
2014/04/07 16:15:50
digimidi
Thanks, guys. I guess I'll give your suggestions a shot!
2014/04/07 16:44:09
jbow
You may be more confused than ever but I bet you're not more confused than me! Posts like yours and the answers help me and a lot of other people. Thanks! Recording is a lot harder than it looks like it is in the magazines and in videos... the sounds in your head just DO NOT want to come out and become audio, lol. They are kicking and screaming all the way... at least it seems that way.
Are you familiar with Pensado's Place http://www.pensadosplace.tv/ they have lots and lots of good tips. I'm sure you're aware but Groove3 has a load of good videos, some cover basic stuff like this that can be confusing because, IMO, most people assume you know things that are confusing, not because of anything other that a lot of people here have been at it a LONG time. It is easy for people to make too many assumptions, even teachers can assume you know more than you do (than I do)... Karl's videos are REALLY great for covering everything and he is available for questioning if you don't understand something. They are the SWA videos and Karl goes by Fastbikerboy on the forum. http://forum.cakewalk.com/SWA-Videos-for-Sonar-X3-m2953711.aspx I really like Karl's videos because if you have an extra monitor you can open X3 in your main monitor (or not) and open the video in the other monitor and try things right along with the video... and he has a bloody great accent!
 
Then there are Scott Garrigus' books Sonar X3 POWER was just released last week, or earlier this week. It is WELL worth buying. Order from Barnes and Noble and get free shipping. Order from Amazon and add a qualifying item and get free shipping. It is about 35 bucks and worth a LOT more.
 
J
2014/04/07 16:57:34
jason216
Digimidi,
I've wrestled with this a bunch, mainly with people playing live, (or older material before click tracks and programmable drums came into play) since people almost always drift to some degree...and unless there's a tool that will follow the tempo...I don't know of a way other than manually to do this...It's painstaking but can be done as stated above by Silhan...this is how I do it...
 
(I assume you have the original loaded in a track...I put it at the top)
1. I start out by putting a midi high track in. (quarter notes) I play/record 8 or 16 bars (quantize this so it's solid) then copy and    
    paste it so I have about 2 minutes or so (or the length of the song I'm copying)
2. I kinda guess the approximate tempo till I'm close then the search for the exact tempo begins.
3. I play the song and listen (and watch the bar and beat numbers) and try to get as close as I can. I usually only
    play 4 to 8 bars of the original starting at the front. You can almost always get close the tempo using this
    method
4. Once I get the tempo that matches the high hat (I play the song (with the hat) for as long as it stays lined up. 
5. When it starts to drift I stop (remember/write down what bar you're on) then go to Project>Insert series of
    tempos and add the new tempo that the song has drifted to. Repeat this process until you've finished the
    song...
6. Once you do all the series of tempos to and from thing...everything should line up. 
7. I then go back to the first bar of the song and with the high hat only...I then learn and record the midi bass or
    piano aprt...usually a bar at a time or if it's phrased, 4 bars at a time...I personally like to do the bass part first
    as it provides all the roots and feels of the song. 
8. After I'm done with the bass and keyboard part, I then "sorta" finish the drums (again 1 bar at a time then copy
    and paste. I re-do the hight hat since I don't need it for click track purposes anymore, then all the fills etc
    last...Once I get the "basic" drums, I finish the rest of the song...snare, fills, cymbles, etc
9. ****This happens to me...Don't know about anyone else but my first bar is always a tad faster on the first beat
    so I always leave that blank and start everything on bar 2...it seems to help me when I start from 00:00:00
 
I don't always, in fact hardly ever, sweat the small stuff like a slight drift...it just happens with human beans.
Even if it (tempo) drifts you can still sequence the tune and unless it's part of the song where it starts off one tempo and "on purpose" gets faster/slower...no one will notice the slight movement. 
 
Good luck
Jason216
post #19 lol
2014/04/07 17:07:51
Silhan
I just remembered that I read about a more automated way of doing this, but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.  I think you start by recording a click track that matches the audio, and then somewhere in Sonar there's a way of fitting the tempo to the click track.
 
EDIT: Found it: http://www.cakewalk.com/D...eq=EditingMIDI.39.html
2014/04/07 20:45:54
digimidi
Thanks so much, folks. Every bit of information given here will be attempted until I get it!
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