Hi Sonar X peeps.  I have my eye on a MOTU 828x (to be connected via USB to PC win7 i7) because it has virtual live mixer for latency free overdubs, the processing looks to be decent, and it has more than one S/PDIF I/O (RCA & Optical), but i don't know enough about the Virtual live mixer and effects to make a decision.  I am also considering the RME UCX for its virtual liver mixer and effects, and for its more than one S/PDIF I/O (RCA & Optical), and although it cost a lot more, the RME virtual mixer looks pretty versatile.  There is a lot to consider, so i thought it's time to see what other people have to say. 
 
So i'm very curious - what do you all think is the best audio interface to work seamlessly with Sonar X3 (and win7 64bit) and beyond?

Definitely the RME UCX.
 
I have 2 x RME FF800's and thinking of selling them to get just 1 UFX (the bigger brother to the UCX, the new flagship product). I have found RME to be as good a company to deal with as Cakewalk and they will always work with you. Top drivers, support and hardware. At the top of their game and there's always something new.

Hi Quadcore,
I've owned MOTU, Lynx and now RME (currently running a HDSPe MADI fx driving a Orion32 and Lynx Aurora 16) and RME is, IMHO, the best of them. The Lynx AES16e interface was quite good, but the RME just is a better device, and either of them are better than the MOTU stuff. RME just has better/more frequently updated drivers, fantastic support and really great gear. The RME gear is more expensive, but in this case it really is a "you get what you pay for" situation.
 
Dean
 
Oh, and the UCX is the flagship? Ha! I see your 60 channels of I/O and raise you 330! 
(kidding of course)

I own MOTU, M-Audio, and Focusrite interfaces, and I'm just far enough into MOTU's DSP mixer to be uncomfortable with something I think I'm seeing. Each stereo pair of outputs has its own page in the mixer.
 
Getting acquainted with the hardware and software, I'm tracking vocals, light compression to tame big peaks, with a bit of reverb into the monitor mix. Signal to the DAW for recording is tapped at the compresser outs, before the reverb send, headphones are tapped at the end of the chain, after reverb return.
 
Setting levels has been quite and adventure. Using a tube preamp, which takes time to warm up, and which alters the tone as you approach saturation.
 
I'm bouncing back and forth between at least three mix pages for each turn of any knob down the chain, and I had to stop and make a diagram to keep track of what's what. MOTU lets you name each mix, and it won't be long before I have these feeds committed to memory, but I'm wondering what's going to happen when I have two guitars, a bass, keyboard player, drums on several channels, a vocalist and backup vocalists in here laying down basic tracks, and everybody wants a unique monitor mix.
 
The Focusrites and some of the M-Audio interfaces have similar DSP setups with the Motu, but the M-Audio Profire 2626 has DSP software in an 18x16 I/O configuration, with main faders, and 7 sends, all visible on one screen.
 
If you plan to use much outboard processing, or need to set up and maintain several different monitor mixes, you might look into ways to reduce the page turning in the DSP mixer, for speed, efficiency, and less stress.

I have never used Motu gear, but I can say RME's Total Mix mixing software is wonderful. Incredibly flexible, good effects (I and others use it at a live board), and very low latency. Mixing software is an often overlooked but very important part of any interface, so good for you for asking this question.

RME also has the best support in the business, not just to provide necessary bug fixes but also frequently adding new features. Rme senior developers are constantly on their forums responding to questions and feature requests. If you can afford it, I would go with RME.

I use multiple PCs, now on Win 8.1 and a MacBook Pro.
 
I own two RME HDSP Digifaces since about 12 years now, a RME Babyface for mobile and recently bought a Motu 828x.
 
Which was disastrous.
 
I bought it to use it with either PC or Mac via USB2, or Mac via Thunderbolt, well, to be flexibel in future.
 
First of all, I couldn't get it to work on any of my Win PCs! The CueMix FX Software simply did not show any signal meters, the ASIO driver did not work (I could select it in any ASIO host, but it simply did not transport audio in any direction in/out of the PC)
 
After days and days of trying to troubleshoot this thing I noticed that it simply does not work with Native Instruments Maschine connected to the same USB controller, on neither PC!
 
Secondly, when I do NOT use the Motu via WDM/ASIO, but standalone, nevertheless connected to the Win PC via USB, I get extremely loud high pitched distortion on ADAT Out B ch 6 and some impulse on ADAT Out B ch 5, whenever I close the CueMix FX window, or reopen it, or change clock/buffer settings in the Motu Audio Console panel. Muto Tech support confirmed this issue, they could reproduce it! Fix? Nope...
 
Third, the Motu does not adapt to the samplerate of a external clock. It DOES detect the sample rate, but doesnt switch to it automatically.
 
I NEVER EVER had ANY issues with RME. NEVER! I love TotalMix, I am so used to be able to route anything anywhere. The CueMix FX software, well, I don't like it. It's so hard to work with it. Also, you only can create 8 Stereo Mixes for all available outpus! Meaning, if you use the Motu for AD/DA, you could route 8 Analog Ins (there are 10) to 8 ADAT Outs (= 4 stereo) and 8 ADAT Ins (= 4 Stereo) to 8 Analog Outs (there are 12)... and that's it. No way to route anything else.
 
The DSP Fx are surely nice, but they can't be controlled/recalled with a DAW project, they are entirely separate (ok, this is the case with the RME Babyface, too)
 
You can NOT route DAW channels!
 
Depending on the samplerate DSP ressources are limited. No Reverb with >48Khz, for example.
 
One Stereo Headphone output ALLWAYS mirrors the Main Out, the front panel knob controls BOTH Main Monitor Speaker Level AND Headphone Level... no way around.
 
You can NOT record dry but route an Input through EQ/Dynamics for headphone monitoring!!! Any Fx on an Input gets printed! You could route the input out any other out, loopbacked into another channel (losing one Mix Bus of the available 8, per Input!), in order to have the ability to record dry and monitor through EQ/Dynamics... There's no switch "EQ/Dyn for record" like with RME TotalMix FX devices.
 
All in all, If I had known this in advance, I'd bought a RME Device, again, instead of "trying another brand", or a Apollo Quad, or even a Sonic Core Xite-1.
 
The Motu is a FINE device, for what it is capable of, even though it has some serious quirks, but I feel too limited with ir.
 

I bought the Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP after getting feedback here, but I personally have not delved into its Virtual Reference Monitoring (VRM) much at all yet. It is not included with all models, and has had hype behind it, but I certainly cannot go beyond an "honorable mention" without having used it. (The VRM is to let you monitor mixing with headphones and hear the chosen environment correctly via headphones).
 
The MixControl software I have used a lot and enjoy its flexibility (I think this is included with every model). I am not sure if the OP is speaking specifically to this feature, but that is very functional and useful. This particular model is limited on inputs/outputs however.

I'm not sure what you are talking about - DSP effects or non-latency mixing?  Almost every interface (well, every one I'm familiar with) has a way to tap the input signal before it is sent to the computer so you can monitor an overdub in step with previously recorded tracks.  Usually this is done w/ a virtual hardware mixer and the only latency is from the conversion process which we are unable to distinguish.
 
DSP is usually considered adding effects to this signal - before the computer and SONAR's mixing - in real time.  Most commonly it is reverb to make the singer more comfortable w/ their voice.  Although a virtual mixer can be DSP based too, no one in  a studio talks about it that way.
 
If you are only concerned about driver stability and a great mixer, RME is the first place to look.  It is pricey for the sound quality you get, but you are putting your money into stability and flexibility.  Not to say the sound quality is poor - but you can get broadcast quality sound cheaper.
 
Motu has a good reputation - and certain computer build specialists here on the forum recommend it.  But like any interface on a PC, certain configs just don't seem to work w/ certain hardware.  That even happens to - gasp - RME at times and it can be a real bear to track down.  Just because you bought an RME or TI chipset for Firewire doesn't guarantee no problems, just less of a chance of a problem.
 
As far as virtual mixers - it is a real art to making them understandable.  I've got a TCK 48 at home which is a great piece of hardware, great sound and top DSP.  But routing is a mess and hard to understand and if you get something wrong you have to wade through 3 separate pages to track things down.  It is scary and I stay away as much as possible so I"ve never learned to grok it.  Others don't have problems w/ it.  So again, there are no guarantees.
 
The moto ought to be fine.  The RME a step up, tho I doubt you'll hear much of a difference in conversion quality - or enough to justify spending 2 or 3 times as much.  You are putting that money in drivers and support as much as anything.
 
@ 

I think it's very difficult to go wrong with ANY RME device.  I have a MultiFace II I've owned for about 7 years now.  I listen to some of the recordings I did with it when it was my only interface (using a Roland VS700 now) and it rivals or beats the Roland.  I'm using the RME as my monitor controller- which is way overkill for this unit.  I can't vouch for mic pre's in the RME products (I'm certain they're very good) but the D/A A/D is stellar. 

I can't sit here and let TabSel make all these unverifiable retorts about MOTU gear. 
 

TabSel
 
I own two RME HDSP Digifaces since about 12 years now, a RME Babyface for mobile and recently bought a Motu 828x.
 
Which was disastrous.
 

 
MOTU has some great gear and it usually has exceptional performance, and is very reliable and durable. I don't have the 828x, but I have the UltraLite-mk3, and it's been running flawlessly since I bought it (more than 7 years ago.)
 
If you frequented these forums for any good amount of time, you will know regular users of the forum advise against hastily buying new gear. It is advised to give it a while until you can see how it's performing for others, as new gear typically needs time to be refined, as is usually the case with all new releases, including SONAR new releases. Bugs need to be ironed out, to sort of speak. Even in view of this, I find it hard to believe MOTU would have released the new 828x with some of the issues TabSel are claiming.
 
 

TabSel
 
First of all, I couldn't get it to work on any of my Win PCs! The CueMix FX Software simply did not show any signal meters, the ASIO driver did not work (I could select it in any ASIO host, but it simply did not transport audio in any direction in/out of the PC)
 
After days and days of trying to troubleshoot this thing I noticed that it simply does not work with Native Instruments Maschine connected to the same USB controller, on neither PC!
 

 
In the above quote, you describe an issue that is a system configuration related issue, not an issue that's solely pinpointed to be MOTU's fault, as you allude it to be. For years, it's been acknowledged that devices sharing IRQs are known to exhibit issues, so you erroneous place blame for this issue on MOTU. By doing that, you unfairly and falsely paint a gruesome picture of the performance and reliability of the MOTU hardware, when the issue you describe above is a system configuration issue. 
 

TabSel
 
Secondly, when I do NOT use the Motu via WDM/ASIO, but standalone, nevertheless connected to the Win PC via USB, I get extremely loud high pitched distortion on ADAT Out B ch 6 and some impulse on ADAT Out B ch 5, whenever I close the CueMix FX window, or reopen it, or change clock/buffer settings in the Motu Audio Console panel. Muto Tech support confirmed this issue, they could reproduce it! Fix? Nope...
 

 
As stated earlier, new gear may exhibit issues. That's why it's not advised to buy new gear until it's been tested by time. Nevertheless, new gear comes with a warranty, return it to the store or to MOTU for an exchange or repair. Surely MOTU didn't deny you to send them gear that's under warranty for repair?
 

TabSel
 
Third, the Motu does not adapt to the samplerate of a external clock. It DOES detect the sample rate, but doesnt switch to it automatically.
 

 
MOTU gear have control panels (MOTU Audio console and MOTU SMPTE Console) for switching the Master clock source. It leaves this selection in control of the user. This is good so that the selection of a clock source and syncing is not selected unintentionally, as that could have a user confused as to what is happening.
 

TabSel
 
I NEVER EVER had ANY issues with RME. NEVER! I love TotalMix, I am so used to be able to route anything anywhere. The CueMix FX software, well, I don't like it. It's so hard to work with it. Also, you only can create 8 Stereo Mixes for all available outpus! Meaning, if you use the Motu for AD/DA, you could route 8 Analog Ins (there are 10) to 8 ADAT Outs (= 4 stereo) and 8 ADAT Ins (= 4 Stereo) to 8 Analog Outs (there are 12)... and that's it. No way to route anything else.
 

 
The Cuemix FX software is very capable and has versatile routing, and 8 mixes is more than I'll ever need. Cuemix FX allows for any number of inputs on your audio interface to be be mixed down to any output pair on your audio interface up to 8 outputs or 4 stereo pairs. That is enough for my needs. The number of output pairs an audio interface should support is a choice made according to the needs of the user, and the user buys an audio interface to suit his/her needs. It is a good practice to research the unit you're going to buy. To buy a piece of gear and then complain that it doesn't suit your needs is certainly a novice thing to do.
 

TabSel
 
The DSP Fx are surely nice, but they can't be controlled/recalled with a DAW project, they are entirely separate (ok, this is the case with the RME Babyface, too)
 

 
The DSP effects, that were assigned to inputs, outputs and, mix busses through the CueMix FX software, can be saved as presets. These preset can be quickly recalled from the CueMix FX user interface when a project is loaded. I have no reason to assume this has changed with the 828x. It comes with CueMix FX.
 

TabSel
 
You can NOT route DAW channels!
 

 
That's a good feature of Total Mix, but I would expect good features like this in the RME packages, as the RME outboard units are hundreds of dollars more than than most MOTU units.
 

TabSel
 
Depending on the samplerate DSP ressources are limited. No Reverb with >48Khz, for example.
 

 
This is a sort of deceiving remark. Of course DSP resources are limited, but the clear fact is this: 
 
The 828x’s flexible effects architecture allows you to
apply EQ and compression on every input and
output (a total of 32 channels), with enough DSP
resources for at least one band of parametric EQ
and compression on every channel at 48 kHz.
 

TabSel
 
One Stereo Headphone output ALLWAYS mirrors the Main Out, the front panel knob controls BOTH Main Monitor Speaker Level AND Headphone Level... no way around.
 

 
WRONG!
 
From the factory, the PHONES jack (Figure 6-1) is
a discrete output at 44.1/48 kHz, but it can mirror
any other output pair (digital or analog) or serve as
its own independent output. For example, at 88.2/
96 kHz, it defaults to mirroring the XLR main outs.
 
When the phones output is set as a discrete output,  it's independent volume can be controlled from The Cuemix FX software. On the CueMix FX Outputs tab select the Monitor button under Phones 1-2, click on the Meters tab, and use the Monitor level knob to adjust the phones independent volume.
 

TabSel
 
You can NOT record dry but route an Input through EQ/Dynamics for headphone monitoring!!! Any Fx on an Input gets printed! You could route the input out any other out, loopbacked into another channel (losing one Mix Bus of the available 8, per Input!), in order to have the ability to record dry and monitor through EQ/Dynamics... There's no switch "EQ/Dyn for record" like with RME TotalMix FX devices.
 

 
The above quote is full of misinformation. This is just a case of "read the manual":
 
The CueMix FX mixer allows you to apply no latency
effects processing to inputs, outputs or
busses directly in the 828x hardware, independent
of the computer. Effects can even be applied when
the 828x is operating stand-alone (without a
computer). Input signals to the computer can be
recorded wet, dry, or dry with a wet monitor mix
(for musicians during recording, for example).
 

TabSel
 
The Motu is a FINE device, for what it is capable of, even though it has some serious quirks, but I feel too limited with ir.
 

 
The serious quirks you attribute to the MOTU hardware are largely a result of user error or lack of knowlege about the capability of the MOTU hardware and software. The RME outboard units should be more feature rich and have more capable functionality than the 828x, as the price point for the RME units are hundreds of dollars more than the 828x, but the MOTU hardware and software is typically a good investment, as MOTU has an excellent history of having provided audio interfaces that are, typically, reliable, have good performance, and have great driver support.
 
@ the OP
 
If I were you, I wouldn't immediately jump on the new gear for reasons I pointed out earlier in this post, unless you want to be adventurous. And in that case Steinberg has released a new audio interface which is available at an inexpensive price point ($300) that has been getting impressive reviews. You might want to look at that.  
 
http://www.steinberg.net/...eries/models/ur44.html
 
Don't get me wrong? The RME outboard audio interfaces, such as the Fireface 400, Fireface 800, Fireface UCX, Fireface UFX, and the RME Babyface are excellent choices for audio interfaces, but the MOTU gear is not poor quality stuff. MOTU does make and offer good quality audio interfaces.
 
Hope that helps.