That's what I originally thought (#4), however according to #1
 

Skyline_UK
Since applying X3d yesterday this seems broken as muted tracks still get saved with the MIDI file instead of being ignored,

 
So (according to OP) in X3C and earlier mutes apparently aren't being "saved" in the file format as such, it's just that the muted tracks in Sonar are not being included in the MIDI file. I'm not sure about the behaviour with muted clips.

I would have thought the best thing would be to have two options for this type of file:
a) Included/exclude muted clips.
b) Include/exclude muted tracks.
 
I would have thought though the current issue is quite easy to workaround.

Yes,  they (muted midi tracks) still get saved because a midi file has NO idea what a muted track actually is. All it sees is a track with midi data. The Sonar track controls (apart from Volume, Pan, Rev, Chorus, Velocity) are not part of the midi spec and as such have no effect on what does or does not get saved to the midi file.
 
As I wrote the only ways to NOT have them not audible/saved is to have a 0 volume, a CC 11 value of 0, or to delete the track. Oh one could also set the velocity to -127 - bit extreme but it would at least retain the actual notes/controller data in the track.
 
But by far the simplest way is to set the track volume to 0, so that the resulting midi file will still have the midi data, but will not be heard. But again it is NOT a bug, it is a part of the midi spec and Sonar follows this to the letter, both GM1 and GM2

> Yes,  they (muted midi tracks) still get saved because a midi file has NO idea what a muted track actually is.
 
Right, but as I previously Sonar can choose not to process the muted tracks/clips BEFORE it gets saved as type 1.
 
So when you open the MIDI file, the muted notes that were previously muted in Sonar project.. simply would not be there. In other words the muted MIDI notes in Sonar do not get saved at all in the MIDI clip (and they would not be recoverable either).

No, sorry you are not getting it, no offence oh and by the way there is NO difference in format 0 and format 1 apart from format 1 puts all channels and parts onto separate "tracks" in the file. Format 0 puts it all into on single track. So for the purpose of this argument, 0/1 are essentially the same. 
 
The MUTE button on the Sonar track view is an internal Sonar control ONLY! It CAN be saved with a CWP as it is a Sonar based control. The mute status can not be saved as part of a standard midi file, period! Even moving selected tracks to a Folder, does not prevent the data being saved in the SMF
 
Cakewalk COULD introduce a midi saving option to exclude muted tracks from the save process, however this is a feature request NOT a bug, as Sonar saves midi files exactly as they should be! 
 
All I am saying is this is not a bug, but a normal part of MIDI. If the OP wants the option to exclude muted tracks from saving (and I DO think it is a good idea btw) then it is a feature request only imo. 
 
 
 

Please read my posts again, I'm agreeing that mutes cannot be saved on MIDI type 1 format, again please look at post #4 as well which I pretty much stated exactly what you said. It's all about Sonar's processing of these files before they get to the actual file MIDI itself.
 
If there is a change of behaviour with this (according to OP X3C was different to X3D and X3E), then it should be investigated. That's what makes it a potential bug. Otherwise I would agree with you about it being an a feature request. If you look at #7 the issue is apparently reproducible by Cakewalk.
 
#11 would be an enhancement to handle all use cases.
 
Sorry for the bold, but I'm trying to get the point across again, I agree with what you are saying mostly, but we are talking about the Sonar processing of the file, not the actual file format itself.
 
Cheers.

Yes I understood you agreed with that  but there has been no change in behaviour  as claimed by the OP.  AFAIK, and IIRC Cakewalk/Sonar has NEVER given the option to selectively save midi tracks. IE, there was never an option to select ONLY "live tracks" and exclude mute tracks for the saved SMF. It has only ever saved whatever MIDI tracks are in the project. Processing has nothing to do with it - I would suggest the OP is recalling an option that was never there. It did not even do it automatically (only save non-muted tracks)...perhaps the OP had, co-incidentally, tracks that were 0 volume AND muted and ergo he thinks the muted track was not saved???
 
Now on the other hand Sonar has (and always has) saved the mute status in a CWP file...
 
Sonar does not process anything before it saves a midi file, so how the OP can say it somehow has stopped doing something it has never done is beyond me! Oh there are a couple of things it will "process" when saving, and these are the transpose value and velocity values set using the track controls and not manually applied to a track by the user via the Process Menu).
 
edited to remove two stray words at the end

Right so OP says there is a change of behaviour from X3C to X3D.
 
You say there isn't a change of behaviour.


Not sure who is right or wrong :)
 
Cake says it's reproducible, but they may not have checked the behaviour between the X3C and X3D versions themselves, nor did I check this. That would be the difference between bug and enhancement here. Of course the enhancement in #11 would just resolve everything, although I haven't filed this in as a feature request myself (I don't use MIDI type 1 myself). The OP may consider updating his existing issue in the problem reporter accordingly (as a suggested alterative fix), that is if my enhancement idea appeals to him.

Look, Alex, I do not think the OP is giving the full story here. And I have been using MIDI for decades, and writing and editing midi files for Roland, Korg Yamaha et al...Any file I created and saved where I forgot to zero the volume of a part (even if muted in the CWP) always played on my Roland keyboards (including a Fantom!) 
 
I have a feeling "in my water" that something the OP did with these files "years ago" he is not saying or is not remembering. And I looked at the bug report file he submitted...the behaviour of Sonar is as expected not what the OP expects...
 
And where is the Cakewalk "reproduced" data? I would like to see the Cakewalk response to his "bug" report pasted above? It says "reproducible" at the bottom as that is HIS view...And of course it is reproducible because Sonar is doing what it should be doing - normal behaviour.
 
D

Well I maintain neutral here as I haven't tested the behaviour between X3C and X3D. I'm certainly not disagreeing with either of you at this stage, you may have a point in saying the behaviour has not changed, over to the OP or (preferably) Cakewalk to respond.

So this filtering out of muted MIDI when doing the save is being presented as a "feature" that existed in previous versions but was lost in the version update? I find nothing in the documentation that would specifically lead one to believe that muted MIDI clips would NOT be saved. The semantics of whether this is a bug or not are probably not too important.
 
The option to not export muted data is clearly the intended behavior when exporting audio:
" Alternatively, you can mute tracks or buses you don’t want to include in the mixdown, and then check Track Mute/Solo or Bus Mute/Solo in the Mix Enables field so that SONAR uses that information as a guide when picking what data to include in the exported file."
http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X3&Lang=EN&Req=Dialogs1.45.html
 
I would think the workaround would be to save the current project under another name, delete the offending muted MIDI clips/tracks in the "new" project, then do the Save AS> MIDI from the project. So long as you know this is going to happen it should not be a major problem. A bit more work no doubt.