• SONAR
  • Best way to hook up mic/guitar? (p.2)
2014/03/06 18:44:59
spacealf
"i guess first i'll try plugging a mic directly to the card and then from there try to plug a mic or guitar into the behringer and then use the RCA out of the behringer to the RCA in of the soundcard
i have that phantom power switch on the behringer i can play with"
 
I can't tell what all the connections are on the Behringer. I see the phono plugs (RCA phono) for the Main/Mix section there so yes that will work to go to the Delta phono inputs. Depends on how you want to run it. Usually a pre-amp is needed for a microphone, so like a mixing board for a live band, you have the inputs for mics (XLR) and you adjust the volume of the mix, same way with the Behringer, and how the Delta runs (i think it also has XLR inputs) then a mic can go to either, but if the Behringer has 48V for a condenser mic or a mic that needs one then that would have to be used, but the outputs still will be line outputs (just RCA phono type).
 
"if i need "more juice" for my guitar then i will try doing a line or preamp out into the mixer....then into the card."
 
Yes, if nothing is a high-impedence input for your guitar (that is what a guitar amp has for input for guitar), then the volume will probably not be loud enough. If the Behringer has a high-impedence input for guitar than I would use that unless you want to hook up line inputs and outputs by using the pre-amps or line out connection on the amp.
 
Otherwise the guitar will not be loud enough to record. To record everything must have an adequate volume signal, but also at the same time not be overloud and distort the input. Just like a mixer with a live band, if it does not have a guitar input, then you either have to mic the amp like on a sound stage perhaps, or use the line out or pre-amp outs to a line input on the mixer.
 
Same-o, same-o except perhaps in recording the volume does not have to be as loud.
Ya, know, a lot of albums recorded say like with Eric Clapton or so is not the amp they use on a live sound stage playing, it is more like a little 15 watt amp they like the sound of. (Layla is such a song. It is reported he recorded that with a little amp in the studio, not a big guitar amp.)
 
If the neighborhood does not complain about loudness perhaps you can play loud and mic the guitar amp and do it that way also, but usually in a bedroom or a room in a house, and without sound proofing and whatever else is needed, then usually it may not sound that good, and that is when pre-amps are used with no amplification and the rest done with the software afterwards. It is called - recording engineering.

 
And what you end up with is how you edit the sound and add reverb or echo say or compression or noise gate and other software that may be included with the DAW. Otherwise there is also hardware equipment to hook up before recording that would do the same thing. Depends...............................on what you want to do and how much the budget is.
 
One thing is for sure, it usually costs more than what anyone thought, but still, there is cheap enough equipment nowdays to make it work for the home recordist.
 
And DI is a term meaning a direct box hookup that would take the signal and make it adequate for the line inputs (by changing the impedence probably). Anyway, those can be looked up also.
 
I also have a Boss ME-25 or Digitech electronic gizmo that I can use to simulate effects and sounds for a guitar and again the outputs can go either to an amp or a mixer (or recording line input).
 
 
 
 
2014/03/07 10:41:41
Cactus Music
Just a polite warning, there is some misinformation in some of the above answers, I will not go into detail, instead I will try and give you a few facts that will get you going. 
 
First , the 2 interfaces: 
The Delta even though old, is 90% better for the simple fact it actually comes with real ASIO drivers. Behringer does not supply proper drivers and it is well documented the issues people will have trying to use that type of device with Sonar. Also PCI cards have real good latency and timing. Your recordings will thank for using it. 
You have 2 Mike pre amp inputs on the Delta, so you could use 2 mikes to record 2 tracks. Always record your guitar amp with a mike if you have that option. That is the most popular method for good tone. 
You could use the Behringer as a 3rd mike Pre amp as well as an instrument input by patching it's RCA outputs into your Deltas RCA inputs. 
 
DO not use the Behringers USB, ASIO only allows one device at a time, stick with the Delta and download the latest ASIO drivers that match your OS 32 or 64 versions. 
2014/03/10 10:49:20
seed
thanks for the extra words cactus
 
a few things with terminology here that i'm not grasping but regardless i gave this a slight whirl over the weekend
 
i did the latter and tried hooking up the RCA out of the behringer to the RCA in of the soundcard.
guitar plugged straight into the behringer, line out from my guitar amp plugged into the behringer, preamp out from my guitar amp into the behringer
 
all 3 kind of seemed to produce the same result which at the moment is "i'm not sure" lol
when using the preamp it felt like the higher volume i had on my amp....the more "juice" the behringer was getting.....would that make sense?  sadly i cannot make noise in my house like that.....so i'm not sure this would ever be a viable option if i can't record "silently" so to speak
 
either way....i managed to get SOMEthing into sonar.  it sounded kind of yucky and i'm not really sure the signal boost is high enough.  to compound the issue i need to sort out the whole monitoring thing because i couldn't hear my guitar when playing and recording - i could only hear it on the playback. 
 
so...i'm just not sure i'm "there" yet in terms of getting a clean healthy signal into my PC.
i partially don't know what to expect though
 
 
2014/03/17 18:41:12
evvdcaec
Here is how I would wire it. Ch 1&2 out of the Delta into the 2-Track in on the Behringer, with the 2-Track to Phones button selected. The main out of the Behringer into Ch 3&4 on the Delta. Phones out of the Behringer to Monitors/Headphones.
 
This allows you to use the controls on the mixer for input volume into the Delta as well as Output Volume to monitors without any crosstalking. 
 
As for getting your guitar signal into the Delta, you have three options. The first option is to plug the guitar straight into the Behringer. This allows you to re-amp later, either by using something like Guitar Rig or firing back out into a physical amp. You will have to drive up the gain on the Behringer to achieve a useable signal without a preamp, it's not ideal but it will work and be completely useable. I really recommend picking up a preamp, even if it's a cheap one. The ART TubeMP can usually be found for about $50. Straight in with a preamp is the best way to record. Depending on how your amp is laid out you may be able to use the preamp on it, just make you keep it clean and re-amp later or apply your effects in post.
The next option is to throw a mic in front of the amp. Not much to say about this one. There are many articles and YouTube videos on how to throw a mic in front of an amp. I don't like this because it locks in your sound.
The last, and certainly least, option is to go into the Behringer from the amp's line out. If your amp doesn't have a master volume that's not tied to the line out, or if it doesn't have an attenuator, line out may not be an option for you due to the volume required to drive it. Again, this locks in the sound and leaves very little room for experimenting or altering. 
2014/03/17 19:39:02
Cactus Music
Miking a guitar amp is always the best solution. Unless you have a crappy amp. Electric Guitar and a tube amp.. what I'd guess to say is by far the most common set up used bu everyone I ever worked with. The amp gives us the tone we desire. There is a interaction unlike with a line input.
Plugging an electric guitar in to a line input or an instrument input on a mixer or an interface will be clean. ( read, kinda boring)  If that's your "tone" then go for it.
 
The behringer mixer will be fine as a control for input and output, just don't use the USB option. The Delta cards were designed to be used with outboard gear like a mixer.  They have  no proper monitoring.  So a small mixer is a good solution. Your's is just very limited.
2014/03/18 10:47:09
seed
great stuff guys thanks for expanding
 
i tried a mic over the weekend in the same way i did guitar - just simply plug into the behringer and use the RCA outs to the Delta RCA ins.  i did this with and without the "phantom power" provided by the behringer.
my result felt the same as guitar - i'm just not sure the signal is "hot" enough
like i know i don't want to be clipping and well into the red....but i'm also not coming very close to it very often
 
with the guitar as said i have both a preamp out and a line out....but it felt like BOTH were controlled by how much volume i was pumping through the amp?  either way this just can't be an option as my house is too small to allow regular shredding :)
 
i'll have to experiment more but perhaps my best bet is a DI box/preamp into the behringer as suggested.
PS - are these two essentially the same thing?  a "DI box" is just a stripped down preamp mostly made for the purpose of connecting to PC?
 
2014/03/18 12:09:24
spacealf
You only use phantom power on a microphone that needs it. No other connection. If you go into the red, that is bad, it is distortion that is not like analog, it is way worse. You never want to go into the red on a computer "digital" recording. Equipment that may and I stress - may - do that is thousands of dollars, anything else like home equipment will end up wrecking the recording, it will have to be done over, never in the red, better dead than red! (saying from the '50's).
 
I think you have to get use to the fact that recording is different than playing say live in a band or so, or else you need to hook up perhaps headphones and have a headphone amp if it is not loud enough. My headphones are very loud, and if they were not loud enough, I have a stereo amp with headphones out so I can cut off the speakers and just crank up the stereo amp's volume and even make it louder, but that is not necessary with my headphone out on my audio/interface unit.
 
I think a DI box is not really a pre-amp, it just changes the impedence to go into a regular medium impedence input.
Guitars need a high impedence input, but studio equipment (or even most home consumer equipment nowadays) is low impedence. That is a mis-match so volume may be lost or the signal not as loud is it could be with impedence matching.
 
Impedence may still make a difference, it depends on how good the equipment is, so it is always better to have impedences match closer so the signal is not reduced in volume and the signal is the best quality it can be using the equipment all hooked up to record with or playback with.
 
And in Sonar, you can make the track with the guitar louder when playing back via the volume control that is for playback only (individual track volumes are for playback only and not for recording), or up the signal level in the I think without getting up Sonar in the Edit menu option - Audio - where you have the option to up the gain of the channel and also if using a Master bus when all the recording is done, another place you can up the volume. The recording level should not be too low in volume going in, but it does not have to be high either, and never in the red.
 
 
2014/03/18 12:19:28
seed
ok i gotcha -
i know red is bad but figured i would want to see it come close enough so that i can adjust a level here or there to tweak it where i want it.  i see what you are saying though with that phrase!
 
no doubt there is a degree of not being sure what to expect.  as you say the signal may seem quiet but actually be just fine and i'll just need to work on how i'm monitoring what i'm doing
 
you lost me a bit on the DI box/preamp part.  in what instance would you want to use a DI box?
i only have laymen's terms to use but i got the sense that both DI and preamp would essentially make my guitar signal "hot" enough for recording?
2014/03/18 12:21:39
seed
PS spacealf - what's the deal with the imogen heap link you have there? 
2014/03/18 12:37:01
spacealf
The other rendition is all the different versions of her vocal (around 4 years ago) at the bottom of that page that other people provided the music for her vocals, and I think people can still download and put music to her vocals which is listed in my signature. I did it just for the heck of it.
https://soundcloud.com/imogen-heap
That's all the same song done different ways if you ever get to the bottom of that page and is all the people who provided music to her vocals still listed at the bottom which I think can still be downloaded. I think she does not do anything with it anymore, and some was trying to be sold perhaps for a charity.
 
Some other people on this forum and in the Song forum here did it a long time ago, me not so long ago, and it still is all up there at that link (except for mine which I guess 4 years later was just too late).
 
This link is there to send it to her in *.mp3 format:
http://soundcloud.com/imogen-heap/dropbox/profile
which is also listed there on the Soundcloud page of hers.
 
In my case I was just messing around, did not use an amp to record the guitar, I used a digitech modeling electronic box for the some-what guitar part in my version of the song, like an Boss ME-25 unit or one of those type of electronic modeling guitar effects units.
http://www.sweetwater.com/c633--Guitar_Pedals_Multi_effects
 
There is all that stuff for guitar you can buy anywhere, the link is just an example of all that stuff, or other pedals, or whatever can be used plugging a guitar in.
(I may have added too much to the song perhaps).
Guitarhacker's version of that song is on that first link, also is Frank Tanton's version plus all the other versions of putting music to her vocals.
 
On the DI box, other people have used them, I have not, so I am not quite sure what it does in the end, but I think it just changes the impedence or makes it so the input volume for the guitar is better (but then it does not have a volume control and a pre-amp probably has a volume control but usually a pre-amp is used more for a microphone, but many can be used for any type of input - from a synthesizer, to a guitar to a microphone and the volume adjusted to provide a better input signal). A DI box is not adjusted that way as far as I know.
 
 
 
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account