• SONAR
  • audio engine problem SOLVED! (p.2)
2014/03/12 21:56:03
rocadani
OK,
     The audio interface is M-Audio Delta 1010LT, playback timing master is M-Audio Delta ASIO Out 1/2, record timimg master is M-Audio ASIO Analog In 1, Audio Driver Bit Depth is 24, Dim solo gain is 12db, sampling rate is 48000, buffers in playback queue 2, buffer size 5.3msec 256 samles, ASIO Reported latencies: input 6.2 msec 299 samples, output 5.9 msec 284 samples, total round up 12.1msec. 583 samples, Driver mode, ASIO, Dithering triangular, set to use mulitiprocessing Engine, playback I/O Buffer size 128, Record Buffer Size 128, set to use ASIO reported Latency 583, under " File / Audio Data" Record Bit Depth 32 and Render Bit Depth 32, Import Bit Depth Origional.
     Do not have Wi Fi, I turned off Norton Anti Virus and let the computer run for an hour, then opened X2 and nine projects each minimized so they could be activated and deactivated one at a time.  After 32nd activation, the noise. 
     Pressing "E" did eliminate the noise, and when pressed again the effects come on clean.  So does turning off the audio engine or turning off the input echo on the live guitar or mic channels.  If pressing "E" on and off before performing each project would result in a clean playback I could us that as a handier work around.  
 
Thanks again for the suggestions and ideas.   Ron
2014/03/12 22:16:13
robert_e_bone
It seems like I get the best balance with an ASIO Buffer Size of 128, and I also use Playback and Record I/O Buffer Sizes of 512 k.
 
These settings for me are what I use for recording.
 
Also, make sure your plugins are meant for tracking, and not for mixing and mastering, as the buffer requirements and latency will be quite different between recording and mixing/mastering.
 
Bob Bone
 
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/03/12 23:38:23
rocadani
Bob,
 
     Thanks for the input, still getting the noise, but the "E" work around was useful until I figure what I am doing wrong.  I must play the project for a split second, hit "E" twice, and I get a clean start each time.  I did change the Playback and Record I/O Buffer Sizes to 512 k.  Funny how this anomaly only happens once in while and not on any particular project.  I still suspect that something is running in the background such as Quick Time Upgrade (which seems to always want to upgrade again) or something.
 
Ron 
2014/03/12 23:47:31
rocadani
Ooops,
 
" I must play the project for a split second, hit "E" twice, and I get a clean start each time."  Nope, even that does not ensure a clean start.  I guess I'll send a test track to the head sets only to test the project when started so I can clear it up if needed before an actual performance.  I'm stumped because of the intermittent nature of this and I don't actually see anything running in the background to account for it.
 
But, thanks anyway for the replies.
2014/03/13 00:17:54
robert_e_bone
Let me try again - I believe your ASIO Buffer Size may benefit from being set to 128.
 
Your Total Roundtrip Latency seems a little high, and setting the ASIO Buffer Size to 128 will lower that latency.
 
FURTHER, hitting 'E' was only meant to determine if there is an issue with one or more of your plugins, I did NOT mean for it to be considered a 'fix'.
 
It seems to me like there indeed may be one or more plugins that cause latency to the point of dropping out - that some of your loaded plugins are meant for mixing or mastering, and NOT for recording.
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/03/13 17:17:36
rocadani
Of course,
     I knew hitting "E" was not intended as a fix.  Plugs in use are: Sonitus:fx Equalizer (2tracks), BoostII
(4 tracks), Breverb 2 (2tracks).
     Latency was indeed reduced through suggested changes and current settings are:  M-Audio sample rate 48000, ASIO/WDM buffer size 128, Audio driver bit depth 24, buffers i queue 2, buffer size 2.7 msec -128 samples, ASIO reported latencies: Input - 3.6 msec 171 samples, Output - 3.3 msec 156 samples, 6.8 msec 327 samples.  
     Under Preferences / File / Audio Data: record bit depth 24, render bit depth 24.  Overall sound quality is better, but still getting the noise.  Currently experimenting with the record and render bit depth being changed to 16.
 
Thanks again, Ron
2014/03/13 17:21:39
rocadani
Bit depth of 16 did not fix it.
 
I would like to add this quick edit to this post, and that is I have disabled Norton Anti Virus and turned off Windows Update to identify the culprit here, and I still get the noise, which does NOT stop the project as does a drop out, but sounds like loud static when I sing or midi tracks play until it is cleared, which can be done when the audio engine is stopped and restarted, or by pressing "E", or by turning off the input echo on the live guitar audio track or the live vocal audio track.  This does not happen to a "problem" project, but is random event that can occur in ANY project on a random basis, and starts as soon as the project is played.  To disable plugs one at a time until all are disabled does NOT stop the noise.
 
2014/03/13 18:24:19
robert_e_bone
Thanks for the info.  I see you are running 64-bit Windows, but are you running 32-bit plugins in your projects, or 64-bit?
 
Also, it seems to me that your latency might be just a tad too low - try bumping up things until your total roundtrip latency is around 9-10 milliseconds.
 
You might also try temporarily suspending your antivirus prior to running Sonar.
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/03/13 20:06:06
rocadani
     Preferences / ASIO Panel button does not bring up an interface.  Also buffers in queue and buffer size are in gray and can not be selected, but I can select the sampling rate and set that for 44,100.  I reloaded the driver for M-Audio Delta 1010LT and selected a task bar icon to bring up the M-Audio interface, then with the the ASIO/WDM buffer size set to 128, set the sample rate to 44,100. This results in a roundtrip latency of 7.4 msec 327 samples. Other combinations are over 14  or under 4 roundtrip so this set up is as close as I can get it, unless you are aware of another way to adjust it.         
     With Windows Update  disabled, Norton Anti Vitus disabled I get the noise.  It does not always occur on the same project, but does seem to occur more often in one that has 29 tracks.  By the way, these suggestions are at least clearing up my projects over all outside noise levels very nicely, thank you for that!  
     Breverb 2 is natively supported for 32 bit as well as 64 bit according to Overlouds' web site and is the only "new" plug is use. My next plan is delete every instance of Breverb 2 form the nine projects and see if that fixes it. 
 
Ron 
2014/03/13 20:52:24
robert_e_bone
I think I may have found your culprit.
 
I went back and re-read all the posts thus far, and had missed that you are using Cakewalk's Boost 11.
 
The Boost 11 plugin is meant to be used for mixing and mastering, and not for track recording.
 
I believe if you remove this plugin from ONE of your projects, as a test, you will be able to see if that takes care of the issue.
 
If you DO need a limiter during tracking, swap it out for a different one and see if that gets you through the recording of your tracks without having to deal with these latency issues.
 
So, also, try swapping your sample rate in your interface and in Sonar back to 48 k.  I do not think the change to 44.1 k was doing much for the latency problems.
 
Post back when done testing the removal of Boost 11 - thanks.
 
Bob Bone
 
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