• SONAR
  • audio engine problem SOLVED! (p.3)
2014/03/13 21:14:02
robert_e_bone
As I explained earlier (I hope), some plugins are meant for mixing and mastering and NOT for tracking, as they add lots of latency, due to the way they process.
 
Typically these mixing/mastering plugins can use Look-Ahead processing or lots of CPU and this will make it pretty impossible to properly record without dropouts, when these are present when recording.  You are supposed to wait to load these into your projects until you finish recording and are starting the mixing process.
 
I have included some doc from the Cakewalk site, on Boost 11.  I have made the parts that talk about Look Ahead processing and mixing/mastering in bold.
 
This is Boost 11 doc, from the Cakewalk Site:
 
The Boost 11 Peak Limiter is a transparent peak limiting and volume maximizing plug-in for mixing and mastering purposes; it is designed to reduce peak levels without coloring the sound. Boost 11 uses a “look-ahead” limiter algorithm to prevent output clipping and PDR (Program Dependent Release) to minimize pumping (audible fluctuations of the volume) and maximize the loudness. “Look-ahead” means the limiter analyzes the audio input ahead of time by delaying the output for approximately 1.5 ms. Boost 11 supports sampling rates up to 192 kHz, mono and stereo operation, and double precision processing.

Boost 11’s features include:

Look-ahead peak detection prevents clipping
Program Dependent Release minimizes pumping
Dynamic waveform displays of input vs. output
Stereo peak and RMS input/output meters
Operation at sampling rates up to 192 kHz
64-bit double precision signal path
VST Automation
 
For more information, see the Boost 11 Peak Limiter online Help.
 
So, take this out of your projects while you are recording tracks, and put it back in when totally done with recording and have moved into the mixing stage.  Look out for other plugins that say they are meant for mixing/mastering or say that they use Look-Ahead processing, as well.
 
Bob Bone
2014/03/14 00:19:05
rocadani
Thank you thank you,
 
     Yes the Boost11 plug WAS the culprit, and everything sounds cleaner with 512 I/Os, 128 samples 48 hz, and even using 32 bit record render.  It looks like BREVERB 2 will be OK to put back in near as I can tell from reading about it.
     Maybe, in the future, it might be a good idea to read some of the documentation for a "new" plug.  No noise over here thank you!   
 
A very grateful Ron
 
2014/03/14 00:32:29
robert_e_bone
Yay!
 
Glad you are all sorted out now.
 
You have the extra bonus of having your specs in your signature now too, so if something else comes up as an issue - we can more quickly help diagnose it.  :)
 
Great news, indeed!
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/03/14 02:46:35
mettelus
Very well written explanation in #21 Bob!
2014/03/14 08:48:25
robert_e_bone
@rocadani - I was thinking about how you are using Sonar, and IF I understood you correctly, I think there are a couple of different ways you might be able to have a more stable platform for your live performances.
 
It sounded like you open up a bunch of projects, then switch between them while playing along in a live performance over the essentially 'backing tracks'.
 
You are putting a bunch of strain on your computer to do this, as Sonar has to process any soft synths and effects, as evidenced by your dropout issues from having to process through that Boost 11 effect.
 
I think there are a couple of ways to play along live with these backing tracks, and suggest you consider them as viable options.
 
1.  Freeze your tracks and play along to the frozen tracks.  This will create audio tracks with the effects pre-processed, so Sonar won't have to run each audio track through your effects and any soft synths each time you play live.  This would save TONS of load on your CPU.
 
2.  Export each project to song files (MP3 or WAV), then create one or more new projects where you import the song files as either a single audio track per project, or load a bunch of song files into a bunch of audio tracks (and solo the desired audio track to play along with each).  This would be SUPER easy for your CPU and Sonar to process, as instead of a bunch of heavy-duty projects, you would just have one simple audio track playing at a time, which doesn't take much effort at all for Sonar or for your CPU.
 
I think of the 2 above options, I would use option 2 over option 1, as it would be a lot 'cleaner' for live purposes, and would load up each song file for a 'set' into 1 combined project, with each imported song file in its own stereo audio track.  Then, I would hit the solo button for the song I intended to play, and only that audio track would play, with me playing along with it.  To play the next song, just solo the next audio track.
 
In fact, using the option 2 approach, I could load up a whole bunch of song files into a single project, then I could solo ANY of the audio tracks, which would allow me to play the songs in whatever order I thought would be best for a particular set and vibe for that moment in the performance.
 
I hope any of the above is helpful - it is all predicated on you going through the loading of your 9 projects as being for purposes of playing sets of songs as backing tracks and you playing along live with them for performances.
 
Bob Bone
 
 
2014/03/14 08:50:41
robert_e_bone
@mettelus - thanks, by the way.  
 
I'm just glad he is all set with getting rid of his dropouts.  Those are SOOO devastating that some folks switch to different recording software over them (which may not fix anything).
 
Bob Bone
 
 
2014/03/14 13:11:17
rocadani
Yes,
     I do want to play acoustic guitar and sing along with midi backing tracks and one pre-recorded vocal back up audio track.  Years ago I played drums in a band, (as in over 15 years ago).  That came to an end with raising family and 50 hours a week job.  Been tinkering a liitle at a time with Cakewalk software for 10 years, and now have 9 complete projects with all midi instruments except an acoustic guitar and my vocals, (8 covers and 1 origional.)
      I posted my one and only origional years ago on Sound Click with EVERY instrument created in midi tracks and it got a very nice reception in the song forum, and made 4th place in Sound Clicks acoustic catagory. I might add that people on the Cakewalks Songclick Forum asked for a live guitar version, that gave me inspriation to re-learn guitar, which I did not play in the band.
     I think I have finally got a good enough grasp of the software to put together another 30-40 cover songs and play out, hopefully in maybe one year.  I must say that this Software has provided thousands of hours of enjoyment, and the thrill was the long trip to learn how to use it as well as performing and creating in from of the DAW.
     I did not think of freezing the tracks, a good idea, or just mixing down the midi and keeping the individual project settings for vocal purposes, a great idea.  I don't think I want to use the same settings for the vocal and guitar for each project though, so I won't do it that way.
     Over the years I have been stumped a time or two in learning how to use the software, and turned to this forum for advice.  Cakewalks user forums have NEVER failed to either solve or give me ideas to solve my little problems, as I am really just a rank novice compared with the real sound engineers and professional musicians who inhabit this space.
     We are all lucky to be a part of this.  Thanks again everyone!!
 
Ron Nickens, rank amature but getting better. 
2014/03/14 13:28:23
Cactus Music
Myself I prefer to mix the tracks down to WAVE files and play them using Win Amp. I also can control this with a footswitch. Using complicated software in a live situation can set yourself up for hair pulling technical issues durring your performance.
I've used a laptop for live work since 2004 and other than a brief issue when trying an M audio interface once, have never had an interuption due to technical issues. It always works. Doesn't take much technoligy to play a wave file.
Way back when I used live MIDI playback from an Atari. Sometimes sounds would change, I don't miss that at all. MY tracks are mastered to be all the same and no supprises in the mix.
2014/03/14 13:36:30
robert_e_bone
Well, I was suggesting you keep your projects intact, but export the audio, with whatever plugin settings you want for each one.
 
When you then import them into tracks into a new project, they will already have whatever effects present, because of them being included when you exported the the audio.
 
Exporting your audio mixes it all down with your effects, so each track will have its own unique plugin sounds.
 
Bob Bone
 
2014/03/14 16:00:08
rocadani
Forgive me for asking,
 
But doesn't, bounce to track do the same thing as exporting the project and and inporting it again?
 
Ron
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