• SONAR
  • Track audio normalization
2014/03/10 11:08:52
whitejs
I'm recording tenor sax into a track, and normalized the audio to -0.1 db.
 
My track level meters show peaks of 2db throughout in playback.
 
I normalized to -2 db, and get 1db peaks (overload) in the track.
 
How is normalization working?  Or is it NOT working properly.  I'm assuming this is not an average vs. peak thing.
 
How is one to control anything if normalization can't be counted on to do just that?
 
Hope I'm overlooking or ignorant to something.
2014/03/10 11:11:40
Cactus Music
It never has worked properly, if your used to working with a wave editor Sonars Leveling and Norrmalize functions are pretty sad. 
So we are left with "tool copy" into a wave editor to perform these simple tasks. 
 
Download http://www.wavosaur.com/
2014/03/10 11:17:21
whitejs
Hmmm.
2014/03/10 11:37:46
brundlefly
It's possible I've missed it every time it's come up in all these years, but I've never heard of there being a problem with Normalize. My guess would be either the track is echoing live input noise along with the clip you normalized or the track has gain above 0dB or some processing is adding amplitude. Another thing that will cause clipping in a normalized audio fie is encoding it to MP3, but it doesn't sound like that's involved here. Bottom line is you can't make an audio file contain signal over 0dBFS, so something is being added in the signal path - or the meter is misbehaving somehow, but that would be a new one on me, too.
 
All that said, there are very few if any good reasons to normalize audio in a DAW with the amplitude control capabilities of SONAR, so I'd discourage you from even doing it and would be curious why you want to.
2014/03/10 12:18:16
whitejs
Brundle,
 
What a great response.  I'm all ears and gratitude. 
I checked back on the project, and indeed the person who recorded me had added EQ boosts on the ProChannel EQ to add some rasp to my horn. 
 
WHEW! That mitigates a HUGE worry I had that there was no reference for 0db in Sonar's normalizing.  That would seem to be like sailing the ocean without charts, mix-wise.  I was SO afraid that it was a non-sensical program blunder, because it would mean that fundamental issues were up in the air.
 
Now, to your final question about "Why normalize?":  Maybe ignorance.  In this instance I was recording a practice tenor part just to feel out the other tracks done by other artists.  The level was averaging about -20 db due to low settings on the mic preamp on the first takes, so the person just normalized my track to get the levels up.  If we were doing final tracking, we'd get the front end right, level-wise, at the preamp, typically peaking at about -6 db.
 
That being said, how would you do it if you were stuck with a final that was too low?  Just boost the channel volume?  I'm all ears, and thank you for your response.  It made so much sense that I went right in and found the EQ boosting with great relief.
 
Jon
2014/03/10 12:53:38
brundlefly
Cool. Glad to help.   The great thing about DAWs is you can do everything non-destructively. Process > Normalize detructively processes the audio file. To bring a low-level signal up at the input to the track, use the Gain control (accessed via the Track Inspector or by setting the Track Control at the top of the Tracks pane to reveal it if it's not currently showing in track headers).
 
If the track is going to part of a larger mix, you probably don't need to bring it up that much. Peaking between -18 and -12 should be plenty. Even if it's going to be a solo track, you'll probably want to leave yourself a little more headroom for FX processing and Mastering. SOP is to have the final mix not peaking above -6dB going into the Mastering stage.
 
EDIT: I should clarify that Gain only affects the input level of existing, recorded clips. Live input signals are not affected.
2014/03/10 13:04:44
whitejs
You just epitomized the spirit and purpose of a technical forum, Brundle.  I thank you.
 
I take it that using the Gain atop a track avoids little complications like post send levels and whatnot that would be in play (pun intended) when using the channel strip volume control?
 
Best wishes to you!
 
Jon
2014/03/10 15:48:40
brundlefly
whitejs
I take it that using the Gain atop a track avoids little complications like post send levels...



Yes, but, conversely, it will affect insert FX in the track's FX bin or the Prochannel because it will raise the input level to those FX; this can be desirable or not, depending on the situation. You just always have to be aware of how changing different level settings will affect the whole chain. Often your ears will tell you you're doing something wrong.
 
Search "signal flow" in the SONAR Ref. Guide for a chart that reveals all.
2014/03/10 16:32:54
AT
normalize is a tricky function.  Sound Forge has several presets which tell a lot.  Normalize for music is -18 dB, I think, while VO is -6 dB.  As you found, a -.1 is way to high and is guaranteed to sound bad, esp. bringing it up from very low.  Overs shouldn't happen, but it will still likely sound like crap and you'll have to lower it back down.
 
The gain is a much better option, tho I've been known to normalize truculent tracks.  But only a few dBs.
 
@
2014/03/10 19:23:59
Cactus Music
Normalization has it's uses but like all audio processing you need to understand what you are doing when before using it. Sonar should not even bother having the option because it is so pourly done and I think it can destroy the track because of that. This is not so when using this tool in Wave editing programs. Normalizing is an important tool when mastering to make sure your tracks are as close as you dare to the max. This is before you think about applying a Limiter etc.
I've been using Normalizing for 10 years now as part of mastering. Wave labs tutorials explain exactly what it is, the dangers of abusing it, and how to use it properly.
When I first started using Sonar I would sometimes tool over to Wave Lab to bring the level of a track up if it was recorded low, this was usually a live recordings that were done on the fly. I agree that it is totally unesassary unless a track was way, way under powered.
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